Watching the Astros

[DrungoHazewood]

10 hours ago, Yossarian said:

Pena played 30 games above A ball in the minors.  When you're ready, you're ready. 

He's 24.  That's not young.  Most good players are in the majors by that age.  Almost all HOF non-pitchers* were established as regulars in the MLBs by 25, most earlier.  When Manny was 24 he had played 750 MLB games.

* excepting special cases like segregation, war, MLB not existing yet, etc.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Well since it’s a follow up to my post, my assumption was that he seemingly is saying they are a great organization and overcome losses very well.

Seemed obvious to me.  

Forgot I have to explain my posts in depth to some fellow hangout members.

[MarCakes21]

8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Well since it’s a follow up to my post, my assumption was that he seemingly is saying they are a great organization and overcome losses very well.

Yes, its an organization built on culture.  The Alvarez and Tucker are experiences because they were taught by guys like Springer and Correa (and Altuve and Grienke and Verlander and others).  The guys following Sig and Elias are successful because they were taught by them.  If you build culture for longevity, it's not the people it's the org.  Ie, the Os of the 70s and 80s.

[tntoriole]

The 7 year deal they signed Altuve to runs through 2024 .. he is 32.  Bregman 5 year deal also ends in 2024, he is 28.  Gurriel is 38. Verlander is 112 .. (just kidding, 40 before spring training) 

Like all organizations they will have some big decisions to make 

[tntoriole]

To me , Altuve was and is their Jeter

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

As I said before losing Elias and Sig hasn't slowed them down.

 

True, though I’d say that in a way, Elias’ influence is still being felt in Houston.  Rookie sensation Jeremy Pena, who had had a huge impact in the postseason, was a 3rd round pick in Elias’ final draft for Houston in 2018.   Chas McCormick, who made the spectacular 9th inning catch last night, was a 17th round pick by Elias in 2017.   I think pretty much every significant home grown player on Houston’s roster other than Altuve was drafted or signed during Elias’ tenure as Director of Amateur Scouting/Asst. GM.  Only two players drafted by Houston in the post-Elias era have debuted in the major leagues yet, and neither has had significant impact yet.  That’s not intended as a criticism, I’m just saying it’s too soon to know if Houston will continue to be as successful in drafting and signing players as they were under Elias.  

Edited November 4, 2022 by Frobby

[Aglets]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

As I said before losing Elias and Sig hasn't slowed them down.

 

Pretty good read here in the Sun about how the Astros are still reaping the benefits of Elias's time there.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/bs-sp-astros-world-series-mike-elias-roster-orioles-20221028-667wvxykvbdd7avqwtxwqfrbqi-story.html

Didn't realize that he was responsible for drafting Pena as well.

To be fair, good on the new Astros front office for not screwing up the foundation that Elias helped build.

[Camden Yards]

11 hours ago, Yossarian said:

While not rookies, Tucker and Alvarez are both 25 years old - same as Pena. They were just brought up sooner and have experience that is helping them in this WS.  The way to get experience is to play. 

To win at a very high level you need to have a blend of the “veterans” like Tucker, Alvarez, and Bregman to go along with a few rookies. Then you need to also have a few older vets that know what it takes to win. You cannot have all of the rookies come up at once and expect to win at a high level. High level meaning really competing for a World Series.

We just opened a five-six year window with Adley and Gunnar. It’s time for Mr. Elias to find the right mix using our payroll flexibility and prospects. All the prospects cannot play and some will struggle. He has built a strong foundation. It’s time to greatly improve the Major League club. 

The Astros have built a juggernaut! Four appearances in the last six years. I’m building a team to go after them. 

 

[sportsfan8703]

Watching the Astros it looks like exactly what Elias is trying to do here. Lots of bats through the draft, but if only we could get the international arms that Hou has. They are just absolutely loaded with electric arms. 

[Can_of_corn]

12 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Watching the Astros it looks like exactly what Elias is trying to do here. Lots of bats through the draft, but if only we could get the international arms that Hou has. They are just absolutely loaded with electric arms. 

Not quite, he's trying to do it with what is probably a much lower ceiling on payroll.

[Frobby]

16 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Not quite, he's trying to do it with what is probably a much lower ceiling on payroll.

No doubt.   We probably couldn’t realistically go where Houston has been the last few years (between $158 mm - $217 mm each of the last 6 years).   We were up in the $150 mm - $160 mm area for a short time, but probably couldn’t do that again unless attendance rebounds significantly.  For now, I’d say $130 mm - $150 mm is probably the max we could spend, and that won’t happen for at least a couple of years.  

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, Frobby said:

No doubt.   We probably couldn’t realistically go where Houston has been the last few years (between $158 mm - $217 mm each of the last 6 years).   We were up in the $150 mm - $160 mm area for a short time, but probably couldn’t do that again unless attendance rebounds significantly.  For now, I’d say $130 mm - $150 mm is probably the max we could spend, and that won’t happen for at least a couple of years.  

No need to even spend more than that.

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

No need to even spend more than that.

Well, you can have a nice, contending team with a payroll in the $130-150 mm range, no doubt.   Building a perennial juggernaut like the Astros might not be possible, though.  

[Can_of_corn]

10 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

No need to even spend more than that.

Right, because all this stuff is easy. 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

Well, you can have a nice, contending team with a payroll in the $130-150 mm range, no doubt.   Building a perennial juggernaut like the Astros might not be possible, though.  

Ehh, I disagree.  Their OD payroll hasn’t eclipsed 190M and at its peak, they had guys you really don’t need to contend making big money.

Its possible they payroll could spike to 165ish a year here or there just because of arb raises but basically, if you can’t perennially contend with 150M, you aren’t good at your job.

Look at Tamp as exhibit A.