Orioles sign Adam Frazier

[RZNJ]

Unfortunately, I already know the answer to this question for most of you.   If Adam Frazier puts up a 2.5 WAR this year playing all over the field while Westburg gets 100 games or more at 2B, is it still a terrible move?

Frazier put up over 3 WAR in 2021 according to both sites.   Last year, was his worst full year in the big leagues.   He's been a plus 2B defensively most years and looks good in RF and LF in limited innings out there.   

I'm not crazy about the signing but the severe overreaction around here forces me into a devil's advocate role.

[Roll Tide]

5 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

Live shot of Mike Elias his offseason.

 

Actually he’s pulling stuff out of the trash.

Edited December 16, 2022 by Roll Tide

[eddie83]

20 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Does a poor person commit to a 5 year payment on a KIA Rio hoping it’s not a POS? YES ….doesn’t change the fact that it is!
 

I think Elias is feeling the pressure to make some additions. I also think his hands are tied by the provided budget. I don’t buy the double take excuses by him and Sneaky John (I use to call Peter, Sneaky Pete). 
 

Elias has been direct about his plan and hasn’t misspoke before the lift off comments. It’s pretty obvious to those not drinking the Koolaid. 

I never got worked up over the liftoff comment. People hear what they want to hear. 
 

He said he wanted to add a LH bat. He did. If you don’t like the move that’s more than fair. 
 

 

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, Roll Tide said:

Actually he pulling stuff out of the trash.

Glad to see you're not too busy getting tweets from every Tom, Dick, and Harry on the Orioles next move.   Or was that Larry, Moe, and Curly?   They missed this one!

Edited December 16, 2022 by RZNJ

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Unfortunately, I already know the answer to this question for most of you.   If Adam Frazier puts up a 2.5 WAR this year playing all over the field while Westburg gets 100 games or more at 2B, is it still a terrible move?

Frazier put up over 3 WAR in 2021 according to both sites.   Last year, was his worst full year in the big leagues.   He's been a plus 2B defensively most years and looks good in RF and LF in limited innings out there.   

I'm not crazy about the signing but the severe overreaction around here forces me into a devil's advocate role.

Yea it’s still a terrible move.

[eddie83]

14 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Could’ve saved $8 million and went with Norby or Westburg 

Norby?  Where is this coming from. 

[ChuckS]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

So you think a guy with 2 percentile EV at 31-years old is worth $8 million to be a super sub? If they signed Frazier to a minor league split contract that would pay him under $2 million if he made the team then I'd be ok.

When you are signed for $8 million by the Orioles, the expectation is you are going to be in the lineup pretty much everyday. With second base currently not spoken for, right now we have to expect that Elias sees him as his everyday 2B.

Well maybe it's his speed, right? Nope, 37th percentile spring speed means he slower than the average player so that means he's not going to cover a great amount of ground in the outfield, where the Orioles should have better options.

So here we are on December 15th and Elias has replaced Lyles with Gibson and Odor with Frazier. 

Not exactly making me feel like Elias has any clue how to take that next step with a team on the cusp. All he's doing is treading water and whoever is identifying talent like Odor, Aguilar and now Frazier needs to be sent packing.

Only the most Pro-Elias fan boy or sycophant could come up with a reason why spending $8 million on Frazier makes sense to an organization that has Urias, Westburg and most like Ortiz ready to play at the major league level. 

Guess we know Elias doesn't subscribe to  @Sports Guy thoughts that left-handers are hurt worse than right handers in Camden Yards. 

This literally looks like a move to just get a left-handed hitter, even if he's not good.

 

 

No, I don’t think he’s worth 8 mil. I didn’t think Lyles was worth 7 mil or whatever we paid him last year but I was proven wrong.

I agree with your assessment of a move “just to get a left hander.” That’s pretty much what I said.

You are acting as if I was defending the move when all I was disagreeing with from your initial take, was that Elias is trying to sabotage the organization and get fired. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by ChuckS

[Just Regular]

35 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Elias said his plan was to add a LH bat that could be considered an everyday player. I wanted a Brantley or Conforto type.

I've been pretty interested in Conforto, but today saw Boras tweet he's looking for 2-year deal with opt out.     Conforto's probably going to be okay and go back on the market, but like that sweet sweet Correa pillow, sounds like Boras hoping to guarantee ~16 * 2 just in case he really can't play anymore.

[jcaponio]

18 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

MASN's young PR guys have put out their reaction piece - the one idea they mentioned I haven't seen covered here yet is maybe Frazier's corner OF flex pushes Santander to DH.     It doesn't seem likely that a slow middle infielder sliding down the defensive spectrum would immediately outfield Santander but maybe.     Who is the priority play between Urias and Westburg then for 2B?

I brought this up earlier in the thread but it got lost in all the “Elias must be stupid” posts. Having Frazier man LF against righties (in addition to being the backup middle infielder) and pushing Santander to permanent DH seems like the most logical use of this $8 million. He’s not blocking Westburg or Ortiz. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Norby?  Where is this coming from. 

He'd be coming from Norfolk.

[Three Run Homer]

Upon further thought, Frazier does make sense as the O's utility infielder next year.  He hits left handed, he can play good defense at multiple positions, and he can probably bounce back as a hitter somewhat.   Urias, Westburg, Mateo and Ortiz all hit right handed, so there will be platoon at bats available for Frazier no matter who is playing at 2B and SS.  

The downsides to the move are (1) $8M is too much to pay for a utility player, which means that (2) there is a risk that he will wind up being more of a regular 2B and blocking a better player.    

It is definitely even more urgent than before that the O's trade one or more (preferably more) of Westburg/Ortiz/Urias/Mateo.  

[Roll Tide]

5 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Norby?  Where is this coming from. 

The prospect that had a .960 OPS at AA and a 1.123 OPS at AAA. He’d play for the minimum and probably out produce Frazier for the MLB minimum.

[Slight Upward Arc]

10 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

 I'm not crazy about the signing but the severe overreaction around here forces me into a devil's advocate role.

I’ve been here like 10 seconds and this was the most predictable response to this thread ever. 
 

You’re not forced into any role. You choose to be judgmental of other perspectives. Does it make you feel superior or something? Almost every post you make reeks of, if only you dumb dumbs understood baseball! 

[Frobby]

6 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Unfortunately, I already know the answer to this question for most of you.   If Adam Frazier puts up a 2.5 WAR this year playing all over the field while Westburg gets 100 games or more at 2B, is it still a terrible move?

Frazier put up over 3 WAR in 2021 according to both sites.   Last year, was his worst full year in the big leagues.   He's been a plus 2B defensively most years and looks good in RF and LF in limited innings out there.   

I'm not crazy about the signing but the severe overreaction around here forces me into a devil's advocate role.

My question is, if the O’s win 88 games next year and make the playoffs, while Frazier and Gibson have decent but unspectacular seasons (better than Odor and Lyles in 2022 but just sort of averagish), are people going to be unhappy, saying we could have done even better?   Or will they say, “that was solid progress?”   My guess is, opinion will be split if that’s the case.   

It sort of seems like Elias wants one more season to let things sort themselves out.  
 

[Three Run Homer]

5 minutes ago, jcaponio said:

I brought this up earlier in the thread but it got lost in all the “Elias must be stupid” posts. Having Frazier man LF against righties (in addition to being the backup middle infielder) and pushing Santander to permanent DH seems like the most logical use of this $8 million. He’s not blocking Westburg or Ortiz. 

It's a good thing if Frazier can play the outfield capably in an emergency, but I don't like the idea of planning to give him regular at bats in the outfield.  Even if he bounces back a bit with the bat, he doesn't hit nearly well enough to play in the outfield.