Suggested Deal w/Marlins

[E-D-D-I-E]

2 hours ago, HakunaSakata said:

IF anyone has any doubts about Cabrera...

 

Touki Toussaint has other-worldly stuff, to go along with his 5.34 ERA. He can't throw strikes. Reality is, I know you can be affective with a 3+ walk rate, but it certainly doesn't give me a warm fuzzy and your stuff better not be flat that day. In this clip he was wild all over the strike zone. Did I like his stuff? Absolutely. Would I like to see take a shot with him? Absolutely. His mechanics are all over the place and that is fixable. However, he is FAR from a sure thing. I hope we wouldn't give up multiple high end prospects for him. 

All that being said, Dylan Cease shares Cabrera's walk rates from last year, so it can be done.

[eddie83]

41 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

In a lot of ways, Mountcastle makes the most sense for them.

He makes a ton of sense. Florida boy on top of it for whatever that is worth. 

[eddie83]

39 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

I think that's a fair assessment beyond just talent evaluation.  Mountcastle and/or Urias seem like they're good fits on the Current Value vs. Future Value scale.  

I like Urias. I’m just not sure what his value is. League average bats who can play GG defense at an important position do not grow on trees. Not like he is old either. 

[sportsfan8703]

5 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

He makes a ton of sense. Florida boy on top of it for whatever that is worth. 

The Marlins are a tricky organization. Remember the Sulser/Scott trade for a comp pick last ST?  
 

Couldn’t they have just signed Brandon Belt for offense?  
 

Believe me I like the idea of trading them some combo of Mountcastle, Hays, and Mateo for some SP. 

[eddie83]

2 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

The Marlins are a tricky organization. Remember the Sulser/Scott trade for a comp pick last ST?  
 

Couldn’t they have just signed Brandon Belt for offense?  
 

Believe me I like the idea of trading them some combo of Mountcastle, Hays, and Mateo for some SP. 

Like I’m saying though does Belt make sense for them? Plus if you are Belt do you go there? It’s only a one year deal so it’s not a loss if it doesn’t work out. That said, they need core pieces to build around. They have Berry in the minors. 
 

 

That lineup is putrid. The Soler and Garcia deals are awful. It was like they panicked and threw money away. 

[clapdiddy]

8 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

I like Urias. I’m just not sure what his value is. League average bats who can play GG defense at an important position do not grow on trees. Not like he is old either. 

As this offseason progresses, I'm liking the idea of moving Mateo somewhere (even for prospects), moving Gunnar to SS (until Ortiz and/or Holliday are ready), and letting Urias play 3B for 125 - 130 games.

[RZNJ]

Agree on Cabrera being no sure thing but neither are Cowser/Westburg/Mayo.    Cabrera has good upside and Lazardo does as well.   As others have said, I'd rather trade Urias, Mountcastle and such but if I had to do the prospect trade, it would be something to think about it.   My first inclination was to say I would do it.    I haven't changed my mind yet.    There is a lot of power potential coming from our side but all three have question marks.    I would be least willing to give up Cowser out of our three.

[interloper]

It's definitely interesting that they signed Cueto when they already feel like they have too much pitching. A trade is surely imminent with them basically megaophoning to the world that 4 of their SPs are on the block. 

The problem is they want lineup help, so I don't think they will have much interest in our prospects. They would want our 26-man guys, and I just don't see that happening unless those players are Mateo, Urias, or Hays because they have logical replacements. 

Mountcastle has no logical replacement, nor do Mullins or Santander. I'm okay with replacing Hays with Stowers. But I'm much less okay replacing Satander with Stowers. 

[eddie83]

7 minutes ago, clapdiddy said:

As this offseason progresses, I'm liking the idea of moving Mateo somewhere (even for prospects), moving Gunnar to SS (until Ortiz and/or Holliday are ready), and letting Urias play 3B for 125 - 130 games.

Pure guess but here is what perhaps Elias is thinking.
 

He knows he needs pitching. He likes the depth the team has now. He may be willing to move someone for an arm but thinks at this competitive stage dealing away for prospects isn’t what interests him. He can let the season play out for a little. Injuries happen, players struggle etc. He has the MiL options as well. 
 

I don’t see him wanting to move anyone just to create space. I think he likes the options he has. Now, I think if he can get an arm he likes he would do it. 

[E-D-D-I-E]

8 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Agree on Cabrera being no sure thing but neither are Cowser/Westburg/Mayo.    Cabrera has good upside and Lazardo does as well.   As others have said, I'd rather trade Urias, Mountcastle and such but if I had to do the prospect trade, it would be something to think about it.   My first inclination was to say I would do it.    I haven't changed my mind yet.    There is a lot of power potential coming from our side but all three have question marks.    I would be least willing to give up Cowser out of our three.

True, none of those 3 are sure things. Pitching is more valuable, but to me, Cabrera is a prospect. 75 successful innings is fairly significant, but its not enough for my liking with his command issues. At least everyone has been "waiting" for Luzardo to become what he could/should be. I believe Luzardo is closer to making a bigger impact, but even he is a genuine risk and I don't want us to deal 2-3 good prospects for "upside".

Edited January 10, 2023 by E-D-D-I-E

[RZNJ]

6 minutes ago, E-D-D-I-E said:

True, none of those 3 are sure things. Pitching is more valuable, but to me, Cabrera is a prospect. 75 successful innings is fairly significant, but its not enough for my liking with his command issues. At least everyone has been "waiting" for Luzardo to become what he could/should be. I believe Luzardo is closer to making a bigger impact, but even he is a genuine risk and I don't want us to deal 2-3 good prospects for "upside".

I think I prefer the upside and years of team control to a surer thing for 2-3 years.    Would you trade those three for Corbin Burnes?

[sportsfan8703]

17 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Like I’m saying though does Belt make sense for them? Plus if you are Belt do you go there? It’s only a one year deal so it’s not a loss if it doesn’t work out. That said, they need core pieces to build around. They have Berry in the minors. 
 

 

That lineup is putrid. The Soler and Garcia deals are awful. It was like they panicked and threw money away. 

The Marlins are not a well ran organization, which gives me hope that Elias would very likely win a trade with them, just not do a mutually beneficial trade. 
 

If we could trade Mountcastle, Mateo, and Hays for two of their SP that would be amazing. We would just really have to rely on Stowers and Westburg a lot. Plus Cowser not needing much more seasoning. 
 

It’s not that I think this is likely, but this is the same org that gave us a comp pick for Scott and Sulser. 

[Just Regular]

1 hour ago, eddie83 said:

I keep asking myself how much interest the Marlins have in a position player with limited team control. They know how hard that division is. Santander may fit a need but he doesn’t fit on a playoff contender there. 
 

If I am them I want bats who have 4 plus years of control. Their potential window is more 2025 and beyond. Another reason if I was them to look into trading the big boy. They don’t seem to want to do that.  

I see enough parallels between BAL and MIA I feel like this would be same as someone on Marlins Hangout saying we should trade Adley.      Elias' Adley and Ng's Alcantara are the straws that stir the drink.     They only need to get to 6th in the league, and the Big Guy can go for the Hershiser-Bumgarner stuff.

Now if their 2023 breaks bad, there's a player who could get Jackson Holliday on the table from our side.

[AnythingO's]

To me the Frazier signing means Urias is the odd man out. Average MLB bat and reigning GG champ. MIA wants impact bat, Stowers replaces Santander in RF with Cowser not far behind. How likely is Santander to be healthy unless he spends a lot of time at DH. He will make about the same as Lopez I think. I don't see Stowers in LF, too much ground to cover. Cowser is Hays replacement with Beavers, Fabian, Kjerstead behind. Which pitcher does Santander + Urias get you, I think Lopez.

[HakunaSakata]

37 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

The Marlins are not a well ran organization, which gives me hope that Elias would very likely win a trade with them, just not do a mutually beneficial trade. 
 

If we could trade Mountcastle, Mateo, and Hays for two of their SP that would be amazing. We would just really have to rely on Stowers and Westburg a lot. Plus Cowser not needing much more seasoning. 
 

It’s not that I think this is likely, but this is the same org that gave us a comp pick for Scott and Sulser. 

Kim Ng is widely regarded as one of the brighter minds in baseball and she's only been with the Marlins for a few years, which isn't nearly enough of a sample size to judge her performance. Also, why do we have to win the trade? Why can't we just make a mutually beneficial trade that helps both ball clubs? That's the whole point of finding a club / trade partner that matches up with you like the Marlins do with us.  I also think players like Mateo and Hays have very little trade value so the offer you suggested doesn't seem realistic to me at all. You have to give quality to get quality, which is perfectly fine when we're talking about potentially adding a talented young arm who could be a staple in our starting rotation for the next 3 - 5 years.