How Will Nick Hit in 2009?

[Old#5fan]

OldFan thinks Markakis as overrated because he doesn't consider the ability to draw walks as a positive trait in a baseball player. So he looks at the .055 increase in OBP that Markakis has made over his 3 seasons in the majors (despite his average only increasing .016 points over that time) and thumbs his nose at it.

OldFan was raised on baseball card stats before they started to add OBP and OPS to them. So you really can't blame him. He is a product of his environment when people thought RBI's were the best stat to judge a player by despite the fact that they are totally reliable on what players batting before you do.

Oh and nothing will ever make him change his mind.

Not quite correct. I do think it is a positive ability to draw walks as a lead off hitter, just not a heart of the lineup hitter. This why I now look at Markakis as more of a leadoff hitter. If only he had more speed he would be ideal in that role.

[Austin]

You know, you really love to stir the pot and be provocative. That's fine, but in all the arguments you make about Markakis, there is one point you never seem to acknowledge: that he's 25 years old (24 last year) and therefore still has a lot of room to get better. So even if one concedes that he wasn't quite good enough to merit an all-star selection in 2008, don't we have the right to think that, like the majority of players, he is going to keep getting better for a couple of years?

Just take Eddie Murray as an easy example. He was a very good hitter for his first 3 seasons as a very young player, but never had 100 RBI, never made the all-star team, and never won a Gold Glove. But he got better each year and as he hit his mid-late 20's he was an absolute stud.

Is there some reason you feel like Markakis is going to stagnate? Because everything about his career so far says he gets better and better.

OldFan conveniently ignores this post.

[Old#5fan]

OldFan conveniently ignores this post.

I didn't ignore it for any particular reason. I just take the opposite side of the coin. There is zero guarantee that Markakis isn't already at his ceiling. Also, what the heck does Eddie Murray have to do with Nick Markakis? They don't even resemble each other. Murray has way more power and was a switch hitter. He also was a firstbaseman or DH not an outfielder. Bad comparison.

I think Markakis could probably be more accurately compared to Brady Anderson as that is what I see of him. A leadoff hitter, only unfortunately he doesn't have Brady's speed.

[Flosman]

News Flash for ya! He wouldn't win it either if he was on the Phillies, Rays, Red Sox, or Yankees because he wouldn't be the best on any of those teams. Just another good hitter.

Even last season he had the 19th best OPS in the majors. Which a reasonable assumption that he would be the best hitter on many teams could be made from that stat alone. The line I said he is capable of producing would rank him 3rd in the majors. So what are you talking about.

[Old#5fan]

Even last season he had the 19th best OPS in the majors. Which a reasonable assumption that he would be the best hitter on many teams could be made from that stat alone. The line I said he is capable of producing would rank him 3rd in the majors. So what are you talking about.

Not on the Yankees, Rays, Phillies, or Boston. That was what the other guy was trying to spout in his post. He was falsely trying to claim that if Markakis was on a contending team he would win an MVP. That is laughable and another example of the extremely overrating of this guy and embellishment of his abilities that goes on here. It is almost embarassing to see. Luckily probably not to many fans of other teams visit here much or they would be laughing themselves silly of this Markakis lovefest seen here.:rolleyestf:

I can only imagine what this board would be like if the Orioles ever truly glean a real superstar on this team. There would probably be a church established in order to worship him regularly!:rofl:

[Frobby]

I didn't ignore it for any particular reason. I just take the opposite side of the coin. There is zero guarantee that Markakis isn't already at his ceiling. Also, what the heck does Eddie Murray have to do with Nick Markakis? They don't even resemble each other. Murray has way more power and was a switch hitter. He also was a firstbaseman or DH not an outfielder. Bad comparison.

I think Markakis could probably be more accurately compared to Brady Anderson as that is what I see of him. A leadoff hitter, only unfortunately he doesn't have Brady's speed.

While nobody can be 100 percent sure Nick hasn't reached his ceiling, general aging trends for major league players and Nick's trend in particular strongly suggests he hasn't. As I said before there is no point in my arguing with you on this - the season will be played and Nick either will keep getting better or he won't.

[KakesForROY]

If this is Nick's ceiling and he just maintains it for the next 6 years then he's still a beast of a player. I'm still amazed that my .301/.401/.493 (which I thought was high) is mostly a distinct lower bound for him next year according to most of the people who've posted thus far.

[Frobby]

I think Markakis could probably be more accurately compared to Brady Anderson as that is what I see of him. A leadoff hitter, only unfortunately he doesn't have Brady's speed.

This comparison makes my point and explains why so many us are high on Nick. You are right Nick last year was pretty comparable to Brady Anderson -- in Brady's prime. But when Brady was 24, he put up a line of .212/.272/.286. Brady didn't hit his prime until age 28 at which point he had a string of seasons that weren't far off what Nick did last year (though Nick's .897 OPS last year was better than any year Brady ever had except for his fluky 50 HR season). If Nick continues getting better as Brady did until age 28 he'll be putting up incredible numbers by then.

[Leitch]

Not on the Yankees, Rays, Phillies, or Boston. That was what the other guy was trying to spout in his post. He was falsely trying to claim that if Markakis was on a contending team he would win an MVP. That is laughable and another example of the extremely overrating of this guy and embellishment of his abilities that goes on here.

I can only imagine what this board would be like if the Orioles ever truly glean a real superstar on this team. There would probably be a church established in order to worship him regularly!:rofl:

By OPS, VORP, EqA, wOBA - almost every offensive and total value metric - Markakis outplayed Evan Longoria.

Also, I'm sure that no one on this board is old enough to remember and appreciate Cal Ripken's career

[Old#5fan]

By OPS, VORP, EqA, wOBA - almost every offensive and total value metric - Markakis outplayed Evan Longoria.

Also, I'm sure that no one on this board is old enough to remember and appreciate Cal Ripken's career

There is nobody on this planet who would take Nick Markakis over Evan Longoria. Longoria is already a superstar so please stop with this ridiculous over-rating of a very good player in Markakis.

[weams]

I didn't ignore it for any particular reason. I just take the opposite side of the coin. There is zero guarantee that Markakis isn't already at his ceiling. Also, what the heck does Eddie Murray have to do with Nick Markakis? They don't even resemble each other. Murray has way more power and was a switch hitter. He also was a firstbaseman or DH not an outfielder. Bad comparison.

I think Markakis could probably be more accurately compared to Brady Anderson as that is what I see of him. A leadoff hitter, only unfortunately he doesn't have Brady's speed.

Brady had more power. He hit 50 one year!

[ChaosLex]

Brady had more power. He hit 50 one year!

I think he got a little help with those 50, if you know what I mean.

[Leitch]

There is nobody on this planet who would take Nick Markakis over Evan Longoria. Longoria is already a superstar so please stop with this ridiculous over-rating of a very good player in Markakis.

I didn't say anything like that.

I said that in 2008, Nick Markakis played better baseball than Evan Longoria did in 2008. If Nick Markakis was a 2008 Devil Ray, he would have been the best player on the team in 2008.

That's what I said. If you want to argue who is a better long-term asset or whatever go for it but I was backing up someone's point that in 2008 Markakis could have been the best position player on at least one 2008 playoff team. You could also say that about the 2008 Brewers and probably the 2008 Angels in 2008.

In a vacuum, Markakis 2008 > Longoria 2008

[Leitch]

I think he got a little help with those 50, if you know what I mean.

He only hit 19 of them in Camden Yards, if that's what you mean

[Old#5fan]

Brady had more power. He hit 50 one year!

Please, don't bring that steriod aided abberation of a season up. I actually liked Brady Anderson until that singular season was the turning point in his careeer going south.