Cole Irvin 2023

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

It’s a process and yet we keep our guys down and block them for mediocrity.

Sometimes I wonder if the farm ranking is more valuable to Elias than winning at the ML level. He even had John Angelos talking about it in the offseason and that guy knows nothing.

Quit stealing my talking points from 2021!

[Pickles]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

There is no projected impact pitching in the minors that we haven't seen yet.  We haven't seen our GM/Owner show that are willing to bring in an impact arm.

Unless that changes the trajectory stays pretty much at .500.

Every season that goes by is another year of the Adley clock ticking away.

 

As for your question...I wouldn't care, I'd look at the talent on the team.

We've seen Grayson Rodriguez for all of nine innings.  You don't think there's any upside left there?

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, EdwinRip said:

I think the team is where it needs to be.  Take a look at Houston’s record over the years. It’s not about this year.  It’s about the next 10 years.  However, if the team isn’t able to take the next step next year, that will be disappointing. I am perfectly happy with around .500 this year if we are perennial contenders for the next 10 years.  

Look at the CWS and let me know how you feel.

The Orioles could have put themselves in far better position to contend this year while also looking long term as well.

They chose not to do it.

Same as last year. They were in position, at the deadline, to go after a WC spot. Instead, they admitted they failed to make trades to improve the team and they traded 2 contributors.

This arrogance and assumption that we are just going to be handed titles and will compete for the long term is tiring. You never assume that, no matter how good you think your young talent is.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Pickles said:

We've seen Grayson Rodriguez for all of nine innings.  You don't think there's any upside left there?

Didn't say that.

Who has been a bigger Grayson supporter here than I have?

I said that behind Grayson and Hall, who we have seen already, there doesn't project to be anyone.  Even if Grayson ends up who we hope and Hall ends up who we expect that isn't enough.  Not to do more than maybe sniff the last wildcard.

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Look at the CWS and let me know how you feel.

The Orioles could have put themselves in far better position to contend this year while also looking long term as well.

They chose not to do it.

Same as last year. They were in position, at the deadline, to go after a WC spot. Instead, they admitted they failed to make trades to improve the team and they traded 2 contributors.

This arrogance and assumption that we are just going to be handed titles and will compete for the long term is tiring. You never assume that, no matter how good you think your young talent is.

You know it's unfair to criticize them for those deadline deals when you yourself supported them.  And have acknowledged they would have made no impact on the team's performance anyway.

They could have been more agressive this offseason.  They weren't.  We've been over it a million times.  It doesn't change much about their long term prosepcts.

[Bemorewins]

12 minutes ago, Pickles said:

So who are they going to acquire on April 14th that will make the difference since it doesn't have to be this way now?

That ship has sailed as far as April goes, that work needed to be done in the offseason. However, the next window for acquisitions comes up at the trade deadline. That is our next chance to actively improve the talent of the pitching staff.

I have mentioned guys that I like before. But we will need to seek guys on teams who are out of contention. I don’t think we can get a guy like Cease or a Alcantara w/o parting w a Grayson, Gunnar or a Holiday which I would prefer not to do. But Luzardo from MIA, one of the 2 guys from MIL (depending on if they are in it or not), maybe Gallen or Kelly from ARI? These are the the types of guys we we may be able to put together the right prospect package for to acquire.

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Didn't say that.

Who has been a bigger Grayson supporter here than I have?

I said that behind Grayson and Hall, who we have seen already, there doesn't project to be anyone.  Even if Grayson ends up who we hope and Hall ends up who we expect that isn't enough.  Not to do more than maybe sniff the last wildcard.

If those two turn into TOR starters, this team's going to be doing a lot more than competing for the last wildcard spot.  That's laughable.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Pickles said:

You know it's unfair to criticize them for those deadline deals when you yourself supported them.  And have acknowledged they would have made no impact on the team's performance anyway.

They could have been more agressive this offseason.  They weren't.  We've been over it a million times.  It doesn't change much about their long term prosepcts.

I didn’t support the Lopez trade and I still don’t, although I do think Povich has a chance to be something.  I never said Lopez wouldn’t have made an impact.

Really liked the Mancini trade.

And we don’t know that. We have no idea who will or won’t be available in the next year or so. Maybe we could have gotten players this past offseason that would have been better than who we do acquire down the road.

[Pickles]

Just now, Bemorewins said:

That ship has sailed as far as April goes, that work needed to be done in the offseason. However, the next window for acquisitions comes up at the trade deadline. That is our next chance to actively improve the talent of the pitching staff.

I have mentioned guys that I like before. But we will need to seek guys on teams who are out of contention. I don’t think we can get a guy like Cease or a Alcantara w/o parting w a Grayson, Gunnar or a Holiday which I would prefer not to do. But Luzardo from MIA, one of the 2 guys from MIL (depending on if they are in it or not), maybe Gallen or Kelly from ARI? These are the the types of guys we we may be able to put together the right prospect package for to acquire.

We'll cross that bridge- the deadline- when we get there.

But I'm not going to flagellate them for their offseason moves every day of the year.  Nor am I going to demand they do something at a future date that hasn't even arrived.

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, Pickles said:

If those two turn into TOR starters, this team's going to be doing a lot more than competing for the last wildcard spot.  That's laughable.

You don't read real close do you?

Yes, if somehow they BOTH turn into TOR guys.

What are the odds of that, do you think?

Compared to say the odds of one, or both of them ending up with TJ or TOS or a rotator cuff injury in the next few years?

[Pickles]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

I didn’t support the Lopez trade and I still don’t, although I do think Povich has a chance to be something.  I never said Lopez wouldn’t have made an impact.

Really liked the Mancini trade.

And we don’t know that. We have no idea who will or won’t be available in the next year or so. Maybe we could have gotten players this past offseason that would have been better than who we do acquire down the road.

I thought you were for the Lopez trade.  Regardless, that wasn't the difference between making and missing the playoffs last year.

And for every hypothetical you can lay out there about the possibities, another hypothetical can used to make the exact opposite argument.

We could have DONE SOMETHING and signed Rodon this offseason.  Probably a good thing we didn't.

Personally, I'm more aligned with the FO than many here, because I think I share their perspective.  If I was in charge, I would be conservative, risk-averse, and patient.  That's what I think this FO is, and it's what I think people whon don't share those values, or prioritize others, which I think is fair to say of you, don't like about them.

 

[Bemorewins]

9 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Well, when our guys are top prospects and 22 years old, yes, as a matter of fact, and not hope, they should get better and grow.

And when their guys are 31 years old, yes, as a matter of fact, and not hope, they will get worse.

To really put the cherry on top, they're probably going to have to go outside of the organization for a pitching acquisition or two.  Everybody knows this.  It's not a secret.

Shane Bieber age 27

Cal Quantrill age 28

Carlos Rodon age 30

Nestor Cortez age 28

Shane McClanahan age 25

Alek Manoah age 25

Framber Valdez age 29

Christian Javier age 26

Luis Castillo age 30

Logan Gilbert age 25

These are the guys that our competitors have that we will have to face (and I didn’t include the Gerri Coles or Kevin Gausmans of the world because of their age being into their 30’s).

But for all of these do they seem like the age profile of the player type you mentioned that’s going to fall of the cliff at age 32? 

[LTO's]

28 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Who did we add to this team, besides giving those guys a full season (although they were still here last year), that upgraded the talent on the roster?

Frazier over Odor? Ok, I agree there although I doubt Frazier moves the needle at all and he is blocking more talented players, so he could end up being a net loss.

If you are going argue that the team would be better if they brought up the "more talented" players in AAA then it seems odd that you would completely neglect the fact that their best pitching prospect, who is miles better of a prospect than any of the AAA infielders, has been added to this team.  

[Sports Guy]

Just now, LTO's said:

If you are going argue that the team would be better if they brought up the "more talented" players in AAA then it seems odd that you would completely neglect the fact that their best pitching prospect, who is miles better of a prospect than any of the AAA infielders, has been added to this team.  

The good news is I’m not doing that.

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

You don't read real close do you?

Yes, if somehow they BOTH turn into TOR guys.

What are the odds of that, do you think?

Compared to say the odds of one, or both of them ending up with TJ or TOS or a rotator cuff injury in the next few years?

You said even if Grayson turns out as we hope (which I imagine is an Ace) and Hall turns out as we expect (which I don't know exactly what "we" expect, but I imagine that would be a successful starting pitcher) it's not "enough" to do more than "sniff the last wildcard spot."

Yes, that's laughably pessimistic, if we accept the original premise of their success.