Cole Irvin 2023

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Pickles said:

So the Orioles should currently be in the middle of a dynastic run because they tried to compete five years ago and instead lost 112 games?

 

I never said middle of a dynastic run.

They were unintentionally bad five years ago.

They were unintentionally good one year ago.

In between they made such a mockery of competing that they triggered changes to the CBA.

They've had long enough to collect pieces and rake in profits.

This season was billed as a time to "Lift Off" and they should have been making more than a half effort to compete.

 

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I never said middle of a dynastic run.

They were unintentionally bad five years ago.

They were unintentionally good one year ago.

In between they made such a mockery of competing that they triggered changes to the CBA.

They've had long enough to collect pieces and rake in profits.

This season was billed as a time to "Lift Off" and they should have been making more than a half effort to compete.

 

The post I was responding to said we should be in the middle of a dynastic run and not merely competing for wild cards at this point.  That's what I was responding to.

I don't see "half efforts."  And I do see "lift off."

This team is now competitive.  That is a phenomenal advance over where they were even a year ago.  

I have no interest in crying about 2019 anymore.  But that's just me.

[Bemorewins]

3 minutes ago, Pickles said:

So the Orioles should currently be in the middle of a dynastic run because they tried to compete five years ago and instead lost 112 games?

 

This year could have been the beginning of a serious run. But IMO it was wasted with an overly cautious/non existent approach to talent acquisition at the Major league level.

We don’t need any more exploratory/evaluation seasons. At this point, it’s just wasting time. That’s how you have Major League ready top 100 prospects, just sitting at the AAA level. Joey Ortiz will be 25 years old this year. Should we wait until he’s 26, 27? And even if he comes up now, he’s only place holding for Jackson Holiday. 
 

That to me seems like a redundancy of an asset. What we do have and what we need to challenge the top teams for serious contention is pitching. 
 

We are not going to Cole Irvin and Kyle Gibson our way into seriously contending for a pennant. However, there were guys to be acquired who could have gotten us much closer to that goal. 

Nothing can be done about that now in April. But at the deadline and even more so in the offseason, we need to get serious about winning and stop wasting time with the Cole Irvin’s of the world.

[Pickles]

Just now, Bemorewins said:

This year could have been the beginning of a serious run. But IMO it was wasted with an overly cautious/non existent approach to talent acquisition at the Major league level.

We don’t need any more exploratory/evaluation seasons. At this point, it’s just wasting time. That’s how you have Major League ready top 100 prospects, just sitting at the AAA level. Joey Ortiz will be 25 years old this year. Should we wait until he’s 26, 27? And even if he comes up now, he’s only place holding for Jackson Holiday. 
 

That to me seems like a redundancy of an asset. What we do have and what we need to challenge the top teams for serious contention is pitching. 
 

We are not going to Cole Irvin and Kyle Gibson our way into seriously contending for a pennant. However, there were guys to be acquired who could have gotten us much closer to that goal. 

Nothing can be done about that now in April. But at the deadline and even more so in the offseason, we need to get serious about winning and stop wasting time with the Cole Irvin’s of the world.

This team is competitve.  They are competing.  

[Bemorewins]

7 minutes ago, Pickles said:

How's that rebuild working out in Det. or KC?

This idea that we were bad so we MUST be great now is silly.

You point to Det and KC. I can point to the World Series won by Hou, the Cubs, and Nats to say that it can be done, if done right!

[LTO's]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I never said middle of a dynastic run.

They were unintentionally bad five years ago.

They were unintentionally good one year ago.

In between they made such a mockery of competing that they triggered changes to the CBA.

They've had long enough to collect pieces and rake in profits.

This season was billed as a time to "Lift Off" and they should have been making more than a half effort to compete.

 

I think we all agree that we would have liked to see more done this offseason. I just wonder what this board would be like right now if we had signed Bassit, Eovaldi or Rodon. I think Bassit was the consensus favorite here and he's given up 5 HRs in 15 innings which is......really bad. 

[Pickles]

3 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

You point to Det and KC. I can point to the World Series won by Hou, the Cubs, and Nats to say that it can be done, if done right!

And we're right on schedule as the successful clubs and have dusted the unsuccesful ones.

Seems like we should be celebrating.

[Bemorewins]

2 minutes ago, Pickles said:

This team is competitve.  They are competing.  

Competing for WHAT???

There isn’t a snowballs chance in Hades that we will win a pennant or even a playoff series (if we miraculously get there) with this pitching.

I guess your bar is lower than mine? I would like to see ONE World Series game played in the city of my birth and the community I still call home before I’m no longer on planet earth. I was 3 years old win they last one a title and have no memories of that. Most of the memories that I have going back to 1987 are miserable ones of the O’s.

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Bemorewins said:

Competing for WHAT???

There isn’t a snowballs chance in Hades that we will win a pennant or even a playoff series (if we miraculously get there) with this pitching.

I guess your bar is lower than mine? I would like to see ONE World Series game played in the city of my birth and the community I still call home before I’m no longer on planet earth. I was 3 years old win they last one a title and have no memories of that. Most of the memories that I have going back to 1987 are miserable ones of the O’s.

It's just silly complaining about not playing World Series games in APRIL!  You're literally demanding the impossible.

To get to the World Series, first they have to make the playoffs.  That's what they're competing to do.

It's a baseball season.  Nobody has won or lost anything yet.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, LTO's said:

I think we all agree that we would have liked to see more done this offseason. I just wonder what this board would be like right now if we had signed Bassit, Eovaldi or Rodon. I think Bassit was the consensus favorite here and he's given up 5 HRs in 15 innings which is......really bad. 

And of course we don't know with any certainly if they would be pitching as poorly if they were with the Orioles.  Maybe, probably?

 

 

Do you think that the reason Elias didn't go after those guys was because he knew they wouldn't be performing well?

[Bemorewins]

2 minutes ago, LTO's said:

I think we all agree that we would have liked to see more done this offseason. I just wonder what this board would be like right now if we had signed Bassit, Eovaldi or Rodon. I think Bassit was the consensus favorite here and he's given up 5 HRs in 15 innings which is......really bad. 

I myself would be disappointed that Bassit has been bad and Rodon has been hurt. But I would have been satisfied with the Orioles efforts to improve. 
 

I’m the type of person who would rather shoot my shot and swing and then all in order to try to make something happen. Rather then be paralyzed by fear and do nothing.

I’m just wondering when we are going to actually DO SOMETHING? And by that I mean something serious, not Cole Irvin or Kyle Gibson. Though Gibson has been great so far.

We are going to need top pitching to win consistently in the playoffs. Take a look at our competitors rotations.

[Sports Guy]

Everyone keeps talking about the parks but OPACY had a 97 park factor and Oakland had a 96 park factor in 2022.

The switch of parks isn’t a problem. 

The problem is that his command and control have been garbage and he is walking guys at a rate he never has in his career.

He has walked 8 guys so far this year. To put that into perspective, in 2022 he only had 2 months where he walked more than 8 and both times it was 9. 

His stuff isn’t good enough to where he can allow baserunners at a high rate. The last 2 seasons combined, he has given up 447 baserunners via hits and BBs, in 359 IP.  That’s a rate of 1.2 baserunners/IP.

This year it’s 25 in 12.2 IP.  Which is basically 2/IP.  

He can’t pitch like that no matter what park he is in.  His strike% is also down almost 4%.  While his K rate is higher, he is missing fewer bats and not throwing nearly as many first pitch strikes.

It’s all about his control and especially his command. Something is obviously not right with him, whether it’s mechanical or physical.

He was never going to be some great starter but he should be a solid back end guy that can eat innings while he makes no money. That has value. 
 

But he isn’t the guy right now that we traded for and the division, nor the park, has anything to do with it.

Edited April 14, 2023 by Sports Guy

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, Pickles said:

And we're right on schedule as the successful clubs and have dusted the unsuccesful ones.

Seems like we should be celebrating.

Whoo boy let's celebrate 7-6 with a pitching staff that is giving up over five and a half runs a game.

[Pickles]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Whoo boy let's celebrate 7-6 with a pitching staff that is giving up over five and a half runs a game.

Let's bitch and whine about 2019 instead!  Yee-haw!

[Bemorewins]

7 minutes ago, Pickles said:

And we're right on schedule as the successful clubs and have dusted the unsuccesful ones.

Seems like we should be celebrating.

I was with you and fully supported the approach UNTIL this offseason where we stood still. And then you had the embarrassing but revealing comments of the owner.

Can I ask you because you seem to be very satisfied with how we are operating currently: How do you think that we see get from where we are (borderline playoff contention) to the point where we are (serious championship contention) given all of the level of completion that we have to go through in the AL?