Adam Frazier 2023

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, interloper said:

rWAR says he's been more valuable than Ryan Mountcastle. 

fWAR says they're tied at 0.0. 

Yes, I'm just trolling, carry on. 

And one of them is making 8M and the other 738,400.

Which would you say is providing more value?

[interloper]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

And one of them is making 8M and the other 738,400.

Which would you say is providing more value?

Honestly they're both annoying me right now with the lack of walks. Ryan's also been bad on defense. But yeah obviously I'm taking Mountcastle over Frazier lol. 96 OPS+ vs 76. 

Mini rant: With Mounty though it's like, you just KNEW after that 9 RBI game he'd stop hitting, and it's exactly what he did. Predictable streaky hitter. At least he hasn't completely disappeared, still getting some hits here and there. I acknowledge he tends to hit into bad luck, but it doesn't make him any less of a frustrating hitter sometimes. So much hitting talent, and just refuses to evolve into the better version of himself. 

Edited April 26, 2023 by interloper

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, interloper said:

Honestly they're both annoying me right now with the lack of walks. Ryan's also been bad on defense. But yeah obviously I'm taking Mountcastle over Frazier lol. 96 OPS+ vs 76. 

Mini rant: With Mounty though it's like, you just KNEW after that 9 RBI game he'd stop hitting, and it's exactly what he did. Predictable streaky hitter. At least he hasn't completely disappeared, still getting some hits here and there. I acknowledge he tends to hit into bad luck, but it doesn't make him any less of a frustrating hitter sometimes. So much hitting talent, and just refuses to evolve into the better version of himself. 

I get that folks are frustrated but I also think that folks greatly underestimate how difficult it is to make wholesale changes in your approach.

I get a vibe that folks think that Mountcastle could be super selective and just chooses not to be.

Do you think Adam Jones wanted to chase Sliders out of the zone?

[btdart20]

13 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

I think the Frazier signing was an attempt to raise the floor of the 2B position, and in doing so lowered the ceiling.  But I think Elias knew that when the signing was made.

He's here until at least July IMO.  Maybe they can flip him for an 17-year old if he plays well enough.

I agree with this.  The floor was so low that it was an immediate upgrade.  As much by subtraction offensively and probably better defensively.

Not striking out is a big plus in my book.  And a >10% BB% rate has merit too.

I tend to think the career low .211 Babip indicates that there are better days ahead.  50 pt gap between his BA and xBA per FG (35 pt per Savant).  No real crazy changes about the batted ball profile, slightly less LD% and slightly more GB% is the only thing noteworthy.  But more advanced expected stats don't really point much higher either (xwoBACON of .291).  He's hitting the ball harder more consistently.  

Plus, I do think there's a type of lab experiment going on here too.  

[interloper]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I get that folks are frustrated but I also think that folks greatly underestimate how difficult it is to make wholesale changes in your approach.

I get a vibe that folks think that Mountcastle could be super selective and just chooses not to be.

Do you think Adam Jones wanted to chase Sliders out of the zone?

I think both players share the same thinking which is "I'm up here to hit". Jones would tell you he sucks at the slider away, but he would also tell you he's not looking to take walks. 

I get that it's not like he can flip a switch and suddenly be patient. But I also don't buy that a guy that talented can't get a little better at pitch recognition. 

[Moose Milligan]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

 

Do you think Adam Jones wanted to chase Sliders out of the zone?

Yes.  He did it for 14 years and went to 5 All-Star games.

 

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, interloper said:

I think both players share the same thinking which is "I'm up here to hit". Jones would tell you he sucks at the slider away, but he would also tell you he's not looking to take walks. 

I get that it's not like he can flip a switch and suddenly be patient. But I also don't buy that a guy that talented can't get a little better at pitch recognition. 

Or, just situational awareness.  With Jones, I always felt that if the count was 0-2 or 1-2, he should just lay off any pitch that looked like it was heading for the low outside corner, because there was a 90% chance that pitch was going to be a slider out of the strike zone.  But Jones couldn’t resist the 10% chance that it wasn’t.  

[emmett16]

This Frazier thing is going to be my litmus test for Elias.  It was my thought/hope that Frazier was an insurance plan if Ortiz/Westburg didn't perform.   Both Ortiz & Westburg are performing and have done so for an extended period now.  Ortiz has 164 AB & Westburg has 424.  Both has torched AAA pitching and look poised to handle MLB.  It's time for him to make a difficult move.  

[interloper]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

Or, just situational awareness.  With Jones, I always felt that if the count was 0-2 or 1-2, he should just lay off any pitch that looked like it was heading for the low outside corner, because there was a 90% chance that pitch was going to be a slider out of the strike zone.  But Jones couldn’t resist the 10% chance that it wasn’t.  

Right, exactly. 

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, interloper said:

 

I get that it's not like he can flip a switch and suddenly be patient. But I also don't buy that a guy that talented can't get a little better at pitch recognition. 

I think they can recognize it just fine.  

I think it's a hero complex where they believe they can hit it.  Because maybe, like, 3 weeks ago they hit one and that gives them the idea that they can do it.  So for the next 30 times they see a slider coming in, they take a rip at it because THAT ONE TIME IT WORKED.  

It's like playing Madden with your buddies and you run some bull**** ass play that shouldn't work but you bomb it 50 yards and somehow your WR got behind the defense for a touchdown and all of a sudden you think that's a magical play.  And so you try that play again and again and again and again and again because you think you found the one play that your buddy can't account for but all of a sudden he can sack your QB or get a defender on your WR and break up the pass and shut it down time and time again but you keep running it because you beat him ONE TIME for a sick touchdown and you're like a junkie chasing that high of being able to do it again.

So that's what I think Jones was, and that's what I think Mountcastle is.  Guys who know better to swing at the low and outside slider but they have a bit of a hero complex.

[interloper]

3 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I think they can recognize it just fine.  

I think it's a hero complex where they believe they can hit it.  Because maybe, like, 3 weeks ago they hit one and that gives them the idea that they can do it.  So for the next 30 times they see a slider coming in, they take a rip at it because THAT ONE TIME IT WORKED.  

It's like playing Madden with your buddies and you run some bull**** ass play that shouldn't work but you bomb it 50 yards and somehow your WR got behind the defense for a touchdown and all of a sudden you think that's a magical play.  And so you try that play again and again and again and again and again because you think you found the one play that your buddy can't account for but all of a sudden he can sack your QB or get a defender on your WR and break up the pass and shut it down time and time again but you keep running it because you beat him ONE TIME for a sick touchdown and you're like a junkie chasing that high of being able to do it again.

So that's what I think Jones was, and that's what I think Mountcastle is.  Guys who know better to swing at the low and outside slider but they have a bit of a hero complex.

Lol sounds like there's some trauma here. 

[Tony-OH]

On 4/24/2023 at 6:15 PM, Frobby said:

Let’s do this every time Frazier hits a high point or a low point!   We can do it all season!

I thought it was interesting that Hyde chose to pinch run Frazier (26.0 ft/sec sprint speed) for Urias (26.3) last night.  Does Hyde not know Urias is faster?   Are the stats just misleading?   Is Frazier just the better instinctive baserunner?  Or is Hyde just an ignoramus?   I’m going with baserunning instincts, at least in Hyde’s opinion.  

I think Frazier is definitely a better instinctual runner than Urias. In fact, one of the things Frazier does do well despite his lack of blazing footspeed, and run the bases well. He reminds me of Brian Roberts a little bit. Roberts was never a burner, but he was a great instinctual runner.

[Moose Milligan]

3 minutes ago, interloper said:

Lol sounds like there's some trauma here. 

I don't know what you're talking about.

[Can_of_corn]

I don't buy it's that easy.

More guys would show large amounts of growth in this area if it was.

If you could just set him down (Get a player to do it if you think he won't listen to a coach) and just show him how much better his numbers would be and how much more money he would earn.  Why wouldn't you?

Why not ask Frazier why he just doesn't hit the ball harder and in the air?

Just because something is perceived as being more mental than physical doesn't mean it's an easy fix.

[spleen1015]

13 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

So that's what I think Jones was, and that's what I think Mountcastle is.  Guys who know better to swing at the low and outside slider but they have a bit of a hero complex.

This time a million. Mountcastle drives me nuts with this.