Adam Frazier 2023

[Tony-OH]

On 3/29/2023 at 6:51 PM, SteveA said:

Now I know we are not a representative sample of the fanbase, we follow the team a lot more closely than the average fan, and we know a lot more about modern statistical analysis.   But the level of dislike for the signing, and as an extension, for Frazier himself, is off the charts on this message board.   [Not criticizing, I hate the signing and completely agree].

But I wonder if he has ANY idea that there is a significant segment of the fanbase that really despises the idea that he is even on the team despite the fact that many of us wouldn't recognize him if he walked up to us right now?

I can only talk for me personally, but I have zero issues with Frazier the person. In fact, I respect anyone who was able to get an $8 million contract after the last year and half of stats that he put up and his current skill set.

Saying that, as I've said since the very beginning, I hated the signing but I will root for him to prove me wrong. He had a nice debut yesterday in a game where hits were a plenty for the Orioles.

One game or even a month of games is not going to prove anyone right or wrong, though I know there would be a segment of fans who would obnoxiously pound their chests and claim they were right after one game either way.

He had some nice PAs yesterday. I'll continue to hope he does so.

[Tony-OH]

56 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Well the question, what was your issue with the signing?

Was it performance based? Or was it based off of the idea that the money should have been spent on another position, we shouldn’t be blocking younger better talent and we just flat out didn’t need a MIer?

For me, performance has little to do with it although I do expect him to not be good. If he ends up being good, most of us will be wrong about that. That’s fine. If your issue is you don’t mind Blocking the young bats and just don’t want it to be him and then he plays well, you will have been wrong.

If your issue is that you don’t want his 400-500 at bats going to him no matter what his production is, there is nothing he can do that changes that thought.

For me, this team dropped the ball with how they blocked the young guys this offseason and it wasn’t just with Frazier but Frazier was the easy one to not do because you simply just didn’t need to sign him. Other moves required trades and we have no idea if those guys were sought after or not.

I mean look at yesterday. If Frazier isn’t there, Stowers likely plays. Westburg almost certainly would have if they didn’t send him down.  We already see that impact.  The at bats taken away from those guys for this player is just wrong. 
 

Frazier can be a 2ish WAR guy and he can play good defense but his salary plus likely ceiling doesn’t justify blocking those guys.

This is the thing some people forget. What would Stowers have done yesterday? Who knows? Does Urias/Westburg make that diving play that bounced off Frazier's glove when the ball stayed down a bit in a weird hop?  

Who knows the answer. At the end of the day, one game good or bad should not change anyone's opinion on the signing. 

Now, if he has a great year and Westburg struggles at AAA for some reason, then it's going to look like a good signing. But if Westburg tears it up in AAA, regardless of what Frazier does, it was an unneeded $8 million signing. 

At this point though, he's on the team so I will root for him to do well. I can still hate the singing but enjoy the player if he does well. Saying that, we all need to see what his stats look like in Mid-May before anyone starts claiming "victory" on their opinions of the signing.

[jabba72]

Frazier had trouble making the pivot on a DP feed Mateo gave him in the early innings. Didnt attempt to throw when it looked like he should have been able to. Im not sure what happened there. 

[interloper]

Just now, jabba72 said:

Frazier had trouble making the pivot on a DP feed Mateo gave him in the early innings. Didnt attempt to throw when it looked like he should have been able to. Im not sure what happened there. 

I honestly think that was on Mateo, who took an awkward amount of time to get the ball over there. Then the bad throw to first later in the game. Was not Mateo's finest game, that's for sure. Loved the hit the other way, though, and the bunt and stolen bases. 

[interloper]

Yesterday was the absolute best-case scenario game from Frazier. He showed that he can go the other way for a slap double. He showed that he can crank a double in the gap. He had a smart stolen base. He played adequate defense (his best play was ranging into RF to grab the tough pop-up on a day when the outfielders forgot how to play defense). 

In order for people to feel okay about Stowers on the bench and Westburg in AAA, he's going to have to keep this pace up, which is of course wildly unlikely. 

But for one game at least he looked like a fun player. I'm sure he's good in the clubhouse, and it's nice to have a kind of JJ Hardy type at 2B - someone who will boringly make all the plays. But it's tough knowing the upside that's on the bench/in AAA. 

If I had to guess, Frazier is here to help cement the team in the early going. Make sure there's at least one serious veteran in the infield for awhile and then start taking some training wheels off. And to protect against a possible Urias trade. 

Edited March 31, 2023 by interloper

[Too Tall]

Here's where I am. It's not and has never been Frazier's fault he got an 8 mil dollar contract. That's all on Elias and Company and they are the ones that should ultimately be judged here on this one move at the end of the year when we evaluate this season. I root for Frazier because he's an Oriole now. And, one game is meaningless in the context of 162. However, I guarantee you if Frazier had gone 0 for 4 with an error or two, this site would be lit up and this thread would be even longer.  Yesterday validates absolutely nothing.  I am just as guilty, but if we are going to analyze Frazier after every game like this, can you imagine what this thread will look like in September? 

[wildcard]

I think Elias  knows he is drafting 17th not 1st any more.  And he is also down the list on waiver claims. So he signed several players to one year deals hoping he can trade them for prospects to help the farm system.   Frazier, Gibson and Givens may all be in that category.  None are long term answers for the O's.

I hope they do well so their trade value will be high.

Edited March 31, 2023 by wildcard

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, Too Tall said:

Here's where I am. It's not and has never been Frazier's fault he got an 8 mil dollar contract. That's all on Elias and Company and they are the ones that should ultimately be judged here on this one move at the end of the year when we evaluate this season. I root for Frazier because he's an Oriole now. And, one game is meaningless in the context of 162. However, I guarantee you if Frazier had gone 0 for 4 with an error or two, this site would be lit up and this thread would be even longer.  Yesterday validates absolutely nothing.  I am just as guilty, but if we are going to analyze Frazier after every game like this, can you imagine what this thread will look like in September? 

I don't think this thread will be, like, 80 pages come September.  There's a chance that it will with one or two outcomes:  Frazier plays out of his mind and makes a lot of people change his mind, then there's rampant speculation about trade value...or, he completely craps the bed and we're here ranting all the time.  Like, he's Odor bad.

But the reason that this thread is popular today is that he had a good game and it was the first time a lot of us have seen him play when we've been paying attention to him.  So there's a freshness factor here, a novelty factor that'll wear off in awhile.  

I will admit that the one thing I neglected to take into consideration is that Frazier is harder to strike out than Odor, he's going to put more balls into play which is a positive.  Just eyeballing some of their recent seasons, Frazier should probably strike out 50-60% less than what Odor did last year.  So having a guy at the bottom of the lineup who can slap the ball and maybe put some pressure on the defense is a good thing.  More chances for something to happen on the bases, more chances to turn the lineup over to get Mullins and Adley up.

My stance on the contract for the offseason was that it was 8 million that could have been better spent, especially with guys waiting in the wings who can play 2nd base and probably do just as good of a job, if not better.  That stance hasn't changed and it won't change unless Frazier puts up a season for the ages.  

[sportsfan8703]

3 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

I can only talk for me personally, but I have zero issues with Frazier the person. In fact, I respect anyone who was able to get an $8 million contract after the last year and half of stats that he put up and his current skill set.

Saying that, as I've said since the very beginning, I hated the signing but I will root for him to prove me wrong. He had a nice debut yesterday in a game where hits were a plenty for the Orioles.

One game or even a month of games is not going to prove anyone right or wrong, though I know there would be a segment of fans who would obnoxiously pound their chests and claim they were right after one game either way.

He had some nice PAs yesterday. I'll continue to hope he does so.

My issue isn’t the $8 million we gave Frazier. It’s the thought process of Elias. He trades away Jorge Looez last year because he was hitting the last two years of arb. That Lopez trade hurt us last year, and it’s going to hurt us this year. So Bautista took of vet Lopez as closer. However, who is taking over for Bautista for RH set up?  So was the Jorge Lopez trade worth it, considering we were so close to the WC last year, and should contend this year?

Hindisight is 20/20, but it looks like we would’ve been better off keeping Lopez in MR/SU, filling out the IF with a combo of in house options, not signing Givens for $7 million, then spending the $15 million on another SP. 
 

We could be stacked right now if we would’ve signed a pitcher and added $15 million in salary. With Lopez and Wells in MR/SU. 
 

Elias hasn’t had good resource allocation. You don’t just trade away relievers that throw 99 mph sinkers. Not when your window is just opening. You also don’t sign FAs when the strength of your org is MI. 
 

The real shame is going to be that we might have to turn to GR for MR, and give him the Gausman treatment. It’s going to get really frustrating watching the Lineup and SP give us leads with this bullpen. 

[DirtyBird]

13 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

My issue isn’t the $8 million we gave Frazier. It’s the thought process of Elias. He trades away Jorge Looez last year because he was hitting the last two years of arb. That Lopez trade hurt us last year, and it’s going to hurt us this year. So Bautista took of vet Lopez as closer. However, who is taking over for Bautista for RH set up?  So was the Jorge Lopez trade worth it, considering we were so close to the WC last year, and should contend this year?

Hindisight is 20/20, but it looks like we would’ve been better off keeping Lopez in MR/SU, filling out the IF with a combo of in house options, not signing Givens for $7 million, then spending the $15 million on another SP. 
 

We could be stacked right now if we would’ve signed a pitcher and added $15 million in salary. With Lopez and Wells in MR/SU. 
 

Elias hasn’t had good resource allocation. You don’t just trade away relievers that throw 99 mph sinkers. Not when your window is just opening. You also don’t sign FAs when the strength of your org is MI. 
 

The real shame is going to be that we might have to turn to GR for MR, and give him the Gausman treatment. It’s going to get really frustrating watching the Lineup and SP give us leads with this bullpen. 

This is a pretty broad leap from signing Frazier, or trading Lopez, leading to Grayson being in in a mid-relief role. 

[sportsfan8703]

17 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

This is a pretty broad leap from signing Frazier, or trading Lopez, leading to Grayson being in in a mid-relief role. 

Well why did we trade away a 3+ out reliever with a 99 mph sinker right when our window was opening?  Ok so Lopez wasn’t the best closer on the team, but then how are we getting to him. Grayson is the one guy that can step into that 7th/8th inning role. Who else can?  
 

Poor roster construction for this season. The Lopez trade looks really bad. In actuality, the Frazier signing has a better chance of working out then the Lopez trade. 

[DirtyBird]

6 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Well why did we trade away a 3+ out reliever with a 99 mph sinker right when our window was opening?  Ok so Lopez wasn’t the best closer on the team, but then how are we getting to him. Grayson is the one guy that can step into that 7th/8th inning role. Who else can?  
 

Poor roster construction for this season. The Lopez trade looks really bad. In actuality, the Frazier signing has a better chance of working out then the Lopez trade. 

There is a better chance of DL Hall going into that role at some point, and likely the role he fits best anyway. 

You keep on talking about the Lopez trade and how bad it was but you haven't mentioned Povich.

And non of this correlates to Frazier in any way, shape or form

[NedFromYork]

Sorry, I went to bed at 10:30 last night and have been flat out at work since I woke up.  Has Adam Frazier hit any more doubles?  

Edited March 31, 2023 by NedFromYork

[tntoriole]

42 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Well why did we trade away a 3+ out reliever with a 99 mph sinker right when our window was opening?  Ok so Lopez wasn’t the best closer on the team, but then how are we getting to him. Grayson is the one guy that can step into that 7th/8th inning role. Who else can?  
 

Poor roster construction for this season. The Lopez trade looks really bad. In actuality, the Frazier signing has a better chance of working out then the Lopez trade. 

Grayson is not going to the bullpen .. period.  How good would you have felt with Lopez blowing up and losing games last fall for us rather than the Twins? .  Lopez was prime to come back to earth- unless you thought he was Mariano Rivera and Elias rightly judged what was coming.  It was selling high. 

[Safelykept]

36 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

There is a better chance of DL Hall going into that role at some point, and likely the role he fits best anyway. 

You keep on talking about the Lopez trade and how bad it was but you haven't mentioned Povich.

And non of this correlates to Frazier in any way, shape or form

How bout both plus Givens or Tate coming back  Many options