The 2023 Bullpen Thread

[Frobby]

The bullpen ERA is at 3.56, which is 10th in the AL but .41 better than league average.   Looking around the league, there are 11 teams doing respectable or better (sub-4.00), but then you’ve got four disaster bullpens: Detroit 5.46, KC 5.67, Oakland 5.88, Chicago 7.57.   We certainly saw last week how craptastic the A’s and White Sox bullpens are.  

Ours hasn’t been all sunshine and roses, but then they’re being asked to cover at least 4 innings pretty much every night.  Our pen will look better if the starters get deeper into games.  
 

[foxfield]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

The bullpen ERA is at 3.56, which is 10th in the AL but .41 better than league average.   Looking around the league, there are 11 teams doing respectable or better (sub-4.00), but then you’ve got four disaster bullpens: Detroit 5.46, KC 5.67, Oakland 5.88, Chicago 7.57.   We certainly saw last week how craptastic the A’s and White Sox bullpens are.  

Ours hasn’t been all sunshine and roses, but then they’re being asked to cover at least 4 innings pretty much every night.  Our pen will look better if the starters get deeper into games.  
 

The Orioles certainly impacted both Oakland and Chicago's numbers.

[Billy F-Face3]

5 hours ago, Frobby said:

Ours hasn’t been all sunshine and roses, but then they’re being asked to cover at least 4 innings pretty much every night.  Our pen will look better if the starters get deeper into games.  
 

I was just reading an article that showed data of how modern day pitchers are having more injuries and Tommy John surguries than ever before. The author was showing data that suggested that the babying of modern day starting pitchers, and giving them low pitch count limits, has actually backfired more than it helped. The article made the claim that the old days of letting pitchers go into the 7th inning and pitching well beyond 100 pitches was actually better for them (and their teams), because of the same concept of how if you make a bullpen pitcher warm up in the bullpen, then you don't want to not use him because not using him after a warm up can cause stress on their arm.  Basically it said that it helps the muscles if they actually get used once being warmed up, instead of shutting them down before maximum stamina.

 

All this is to say that I hate today's weakling mentality of thinking you have to pull a starting pitcher after 70-90 some pitches. It doesn't make any sense to me unless the opposing hitters have shown they've figured the pitcher out on that day. If a pitcher is rolling along, I think that pitcher should be given the opportunity to pitch deeper into the game until the opposing hitters prove they can handle him.

I think starting pitchers should stop getting babied so much. Pitch count limits should be closer to 130. Not 90.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

I was just reading an article that showed data of how modern day pitchers are having more injuries and Tommy John surguries than ever before. The author was showing data that suggested that the babying of modern day starting pitchers, and giving them low pitch count limits, has actually backfired more than it helped.

 

Got a link?

[Billy F-Face3]

And even then, I think pitch counts are arbitrary and should not be the end all be all of a managers decision. It should be farther down the list of things to consider when thinking about making a pitching change. The game flow and anticipating the opponents lineup should be the top things to think about.

[Billy F-Face3]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Got a link?

I'll go see if I can dig it out.

[Billy F-Face3]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Got a link?

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1622573-do-innings-limits-pitch-counts-actually-prevent-serious-injuries#amp_tf=From %1%24s&aoh=16817543206319&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com

 

[Just Regular]

I think the goalpost has moved a fair bit since that 2013 article.    In 2013 Jeremy Guthrie faced more batters than Sandy Alcantara did in 2022, and no one would let Jeremy Guthrie do that today.

I guess maybe OAK would let Cole Irvin, or 2022 BAL would have let Jordan Lyles if he didn't tucker out.

The state of the art happening before our eyes is part of what's fascinating to me watching BAL's handling of one Grayson Rodriguez.

Pretty sure the Rays are content focusing on building up team-first culture and except for a few important pitchers letting Arm Barners slag their arms 40 IP/season until they hit Arb.     You can't argue with the run prevention or $$$/WAR results.

[RZNJ]

On 4/14/2023 at 10:39 PM, RZNJ said:

The Mike Baumann I saw tonight could be a good setup man.  He’s had some good outings but tonight he actually had a really good curveball to go along with the 95-96 mph fastball.   Crossed fingers.

One appearance means little but I know that Cano has the stuff.  Crossed fingers on both of these guys.

And Cano and Baumann continue to get higher leverage situations.  Right now Hyde seems to place his trust in.

1. Bautista

2. Cano

3. Baker

4. Coulombe

5. Baumann

6. The rest.  

[Brooks The Great]

I think Baumann could be a nice piece in the bullpen for the rest of the season. His stuff obviously plays up, and his ability to go 2 innings is really useful.

I also like Cano. It was obvious when Elias traded for him that the front office liked Cano's stuff and peripherals, and thought they could help him fix his control issues.

I trust Baker because his stuff is so good. He'll have an occasional hiccup every so often, but he's firmly in my circle of trust.

Once Givens and Tate come back, I actually think we'll be in good shape. And that's even with the possibility Tate's injury could be a long-term thing. I think just one of Baumann or Cano emerging and Givens returning gives us a nice bullpen. If both Baumann and Cano can be reliable middle (more so Baumann) and late (more so Cano) inning options, that would be some quality depth.

If Cionel Perez has reverted back to a pumpkin, then perhaps DL Hall becomes an option later in the season.

I'm fairly bullish on the pen. 

[sportsfan8703]

The bullpen appears to be coming together

Bautista, Perez, Cano, Baker, Columbe, Akin, Baumann, Voth

Givens should be out on a rehab assignment soon.  Tate is still a month out it seems.  Hall could be a factor.  We've been riding Perez hard this season.  Hopefully, some these off days have freshened him up.  

[Ripken]

 

[waroriole]

Who goes down, assuming everyone is healthy, when Tate and Givens are ready?

[AnythingO's]

1 minute ago, waroriole said:

Who goes down, assuming everyone is healthy, when Tate and Givens are ready?

For me, Voth goes first to AAA to start, the second one is whoever of the rest of them, not named Bautista, is not performing or needs an IL break to recalibrate.

[Ripken]

59 minutes ago, waroriole said:

Who goes down, assuming everyone is healthy, when Tate and Givens are ready?

Stowers will go down again.  Twice.