Cal Ripken wishes they would put Gunnar Henderson at SS and leave him alone.

[sportsfan8703]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

And for now, he’s hitting.  And Gunnar isn’t.  

Two more walks though. .150 BA but a .633 OPS. The hits will come. Power too. What this stretch shows me is that once the power and hits come, he’ll he a .900 OPS type. 

[Fiver6565]

These guys including Gunnar moved around a lot in the minors. It’s a purposeful plan and he’s used to it. It’s having zero impact on him if you ask me. He’s 21 and was anointed as ROY before the season even started. He’s pressing, it’s as simple as that. 
 

And also Mateo is playing his butt off and deserves to stay right where he is. 

[PsychoBird68]

3 hours ago, Brooks The Great said:

The right move is to trade him. He has trade value and we have quality prospects ready to replace his roster spot.

Can't tell if your being sarcastic or if you were smoking the peace pipe with Cal today....LOL... I believe the plan is to make a playoff push this year so it makes no sense to move a player that is off to a MVP caliber start and replace him with a prospect that is unproven and isn't close to being a sure thing.....The way he is playing it would be hard to move him if Holliday was kicking the door in but I may try a unproven guy if we could get a Corbin Burns type  only because we have a fall back plan with Henderson and Urias at 3rd

[Moose Milligan]

7 hours ago, Frobby said:

And for now, he’s hitting.  And Gunnar isn’t.  

True.  Remains to be seen how long he'll do it for but he's looking good.

In regards to the overall premise of the thread, I get Cal's point and that's fine.  And I get the prospect love, the fawning and the gushing over someone like Gunnar who's a ROY favorite, the #1 overall prospect headed into this year, that's all great and good and I love Gunnar, too.  I love the patience of a zen buddhist at the plate, it's fantastic.

But I'm of the belief that if you have someone that is absolutely elite at something, you don't move them from doing that elite thing just because PROSPECTZZZZZZZZ.  And right now, Mateo's defense is elite, as are his speed and base stealing skills.  They were elite last year, and all through the offseason there was a lot of hand wringing (and really, I viewed it as hope because it came across as "get this slap hitter outta here and let the prospect take over) about "Mateo's defense might take a step back this year!"  Well, it hasn't.   And while Gunnar is an elite prospect, that doesn't mean he's elite at anything at the ML level right now except walks (I'm not knocking the value there) and untapped potential.

So like I said, we all like to gush over him and have this collective boner for the tri-force of Adley, Gunnar and G-Rod but I don't give a french fried titty **** if he can't hold down a steady position right now because there's a Gold Glover at third (Urias) and someone who should have won one last year (did win the Fielding Bible award though) at shortstop.

It's so weird to me, this fanbase is steeped in left side of the infield defense, we can just roll the names off our tongues of the players who have manned these positions in our team's history, and we do it in reverential tones.  And then you get a guy like Mateo who's probably RIGHT THERE in the conversation (ask Palmer, that's my defense) and people just want him gone, traded because PROSSSSPECTSZZZZZ.

Like I said, too damn bad if Gunnar can't hold it down because there's someone elite ahead of him.

 

[backdoorslider]

8 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

No knock on Cal but we just have the roster we have. It’s pretty obvious the SS position is going Mateo -> Holliday. 3B is just as important to us this season. 

Everybody plays SS in the minors. Almost all of them are below average defensively at SS in the majors. How do we know Holliday can be a MLB caliber SS in the field? Hardly anybody can.

[spleen1015]

I don't give two hoots what Cal thinks about it. Jorge is better than Gunnar on both sides of the ball right now.

[backdoorslider]

58 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

True.  Remains to be seen how long he'll do it for but he's looking good.

In regards to the overall premise of the thread, I get Cal's point and that's fine.  And I get the prospect love, the fawning and the gushing over someone like Gunnar who's a ROY favorite, the #1 overall prospect headed into this year, that's all great and good and I love Gunnar, too.  I love the patience of a zen buddhist at the plate, it's fantastic.

But I'm of the belief that if you have someone that is absolutely elite at something, you don't move them from doing that elite thing just because PROSPECTZZZZZZZZ.  And right now, Mateo's defense is elite, as are his speed and base stealing skills.  They were elite last year, and all through the offseason there was a lot of hand wringing (and really, I viewed it as hope because it came across as "get this slap hitter outta here and let the prospect take over) about "Mateo's defense might take a step back this year!"  Well, it hasn't.   And while Gunnar is an elite prospect, that doesn't mean he's elite at anything at the ML level right now except walks (I'm not knocking the value there) and untapped potential.

So like I said, we all like to gush over him and have this collective boner for the tri-force of Adley, Gunnar and G-Rod but I don't give a french fried titty **** if he can't hold down a steady position right now because there's a Gold Glover at third (Urias) and someone who should have won one last year (did win the Fielding Bible award though) at shortstop.

It's so weird to me, this fanbase is steeped in left side of the infield defense, we can just roll the names off our tongues of the players who have manned these positions in our team's history, and we do it in reverential tones.  And then you get a guy like Mateo who's probably RIGHT THERE in the conversation (ask Palmer, that's my defense) and people just want him gone, traded because PROSSSSPECTSZZZZZ.

Like I said, too damn bad if Gunnar can't hold it down because there's someone elite ahead of him.

 

 

This. I don't want to second guess Elias, but nobody else in this thread besides me has pondered what the hell Elias is doing with the left side of the infield and nobody has even attempted to offer an explanation for his plan. We have Urias, Mateo, Vavra, Frazier, Henderson and then Holliday waiting in the wings as our presumptive franchise SS. 

 

Only two men can play 3B and SS. You basically have all these guys here and so of them very highly touted prospects. You have a gold glove 3B and a hot SS in Mateo off to an excellent start. And it's jam packed. 

 

What is up with this organziation's boner with left side of the infield players. Somebody has to actually play OF, 1B, 2B. Luckily Mounty has really stepped up and given us production at 1B so far this year. But I cannot understand what's going on here? What the hell are we actually doing here? I just wish I could ask Elias this question "What. Are. We. Doing". I don't know. 

 

Seems to me we could trade a surplus of left of the infield players and prospects for some quality pitching. It's getting weird to me. It's like we are hoarding left side of the infield players for apparently no reason other than Elias' massive boner for the position.

[Sports Guy]

If Holliday wasn’t in the organization, I would agree with him.  

[Moose Milligan]

27 minutes ago, backdoorslider said:

 

This. I don't want to second guess Elias, but nobody else in this thread besides me has pondered what the hell Elias is doing with the left side of the infield and nobody has even attempted to offer an explanation for his plan. We have Urias, Mateo, Vavra, Frazier, Henderson and then Holliday waiting in the wings as our presumptive franchise SS. 

 

Only two men can play 3B and SS. You basically have all these guys here and so of them very highly touted prospects. You have a gold glove 3B and a hot SS in Mateo off to an excellent start. And it's jam packed. 

 

What is up with this organziation's boner with left side of the infield players. Somebody has to actually play OF, 1B, 2B. Luckily Mounty has really stepped up and given us production at 1B so far this year. But I cannot understand what's going on here? What the hell are we actually doing here? I just wish I could ask Elias this question "What. Are. We. Doing". I don't know. 

 

Seems to me we could trade a surplus of left of the infield players and prospects for some quality pitching. It's getting weird to me. It's like we are hoarding left side of the infield players for apparently no reason other than Elias' massive boner for the position.

Second guess Elias all you want.

First of all, there's a dropoff between Urias and Mateo and then Vavra and Frazier.  I like Vavra, but he's a backup infielder.  He doesn't bring the glove that Urias and Mateo bring.  I was admittedly hard on the Frazier signing in the offseason but he's been pretty good and a definite upgrade over Odor.  He's not a long term option while the rest of the group could conceivably be here for the next 3 years or so.

In regards to the organization's boner for infield players, being the grizzled "old school" guy you've quickly established yourself as, you should know that the middle infielders are typically the best athletes.  And if they don't work out in the middle infield, they can probably play elsewhere at a corner outfield spot, 3rd base, 1st base.  

It's not a bad thing to have a surplus of guys that can play shortstop.  I mean, we've moved on from the Deivi Cruz days, thankfully.  If we were trotting Deivi Cruz out to SS, I'd be calling for Gunnar to be playing there every day, absolutely.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Moose Milligan

[backdoorslider]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

Second guess Elias all you want.

First of all, there's a dropoff between Urias and Mateo and then Vavra and Frazier.  I like Vavra, but he's a backup infielder.  He doesn't bring the glove that Urias and Mateo bring.  I was admittedly hard on the Frazier signing in the offseason but he's been pretty good and a definite upgrade over Odor.  

In regards to the organization's boner for infield players, being the grizzled "old school" guy you've quickly established yourself as, you should know that the middle infielders are typically the best athletes.  And if they don't work out in the middle infield, they can probably play elsewhere at a corner outfield spot, 3rd base, 1st base.  

It's not a bad thing to have a surplus of guys that can play shortstop.  I mean, we've moved on from the Deivi Cruz days, thankfully.

 

What is the plan here? Mateo is a free agent in 2026. So let him play out his arb years and keep paying him more and more money? Is Mateo the future long term solution at SS? Is Mateo the Orioles shortstop for the next 7-8 years? If so are we going to sign him long term? What are we doing with Urias? He's a gold glover at 3B and cannot even get regular starts at 3B. The #1 prospect in baseball is being bounced around like a pinball machine. Frazier is making $8 million dollars and not to ride the bench. Even Vavra is showing a little bit of juice. Then of course Holliday ETA is 2025 or even late 2024. So, I'm bashing Elias, I just want an answer from him. What are we doing? What is the actual plan here besides complete chaos every night with lineup and position shuffling. 

[Too Tall]

The Moose is loose and The Moose is right. Mateo is here as long as Mateo is here and he is fun to watch. It will work itself out but (maybe) not to everyones satisfaction. This "chaos" is Oriole's Baseball. I remember years upon years when I wished we had this "problem!" Geeeeesh!!!!!!!!!!! 148 games to go.

[MarCakes21]

24 minutes ago, backdoorslider said:

 

What is the plan here? Mateo is a free agent in 2026. So let him play out his arb years and keep paying him more and more money? Is Mateo the future long term solution at SS? Is Mateo the Orioles shortstop for the next 7-8 years? If so are we going to sign him long term? What are we doing with Urias? He's a gold glover at 3B and cannot even get regular starts at 3B. The #1 prospect in baseball is being bounced around like a pinball machine. Frazier is making $8 million dollars and not to ride the bench. Even Vavra is showing a little bit of juice. Then of course Holliday ETA is 2025 or even late 2024. So, I'm bashing Elias, I just want an answer from him. What are we doing? What is the actual plan here besides complete chaos every night with lineup and position shuffling. 

I was all in the camp to trade Mateo in the offseason, especially when we signed Frazier.  But why would Elias go out of his way to tell you his future plan?  Never know how things are going to play out.  Many thought Mateo's ceiling was last year, but through 14 games, he looks better this year.  Maybe you can sell high in a year and a half?  Maybe you trade Frazier or Urias at the deadline?  He's got so many options and he holds all the cards.

[backdoorslider]

10 minutes ago, MarCakes21 said:

I was all in the camp to trade Mateo in the offseason, especially when we signed Frazier.  But why would Elias go out of his way to tell you his future plan?  Never know how things are going to play out.  Many thought Mateo's ceiling was last year, but through 14 games, he looks better this year.  Maybe you can sell high in a year and a half?  Maybe you trade Frazier or Urias at the deadline?  He's got so many options and he holds all the cards.

 

Elias is the boss and all decisions ultimately go through him. I'm not even an Elias hater. The organization is fairly healthy right now with his steering the ship. But I still would trade these surplus infielders for some pitching, but that's just me and I ain't getting paid the big bucks. So we will see what happens.

[tntoriole]

14 minutes ago, MarCakes21 said:

I was all in the camp to trade Mateo in the offseason, especially when we signed Frazier.  But why would Elias go out of his way to tell you his future plan?  Never know how things are going to play out.  Many thought Mateo's ceiling was last year, but through 14 games, he looks better this year.  Maybe you can sell high in a year and a half?  Maybe you trade Frazier or Urias at the deadline?  He's got so many options and he holds all the cards.

This is an important part .. trades require a partner so having multiple trade routes is what good GMs do.  How it plays out is never known in advance by any GM. 
 

And Cal would not have been a SS if Elias was the GM .. because Earl the manager made that move which had never been done with a big guy like Cal.  And it was a controversial move back then 

[Moose Milligan]

48 minutes ago, backdoorslider said:

 

What is the plan here? Mateo is a free agent in 2026. So let him play out his arb years and keep paying him more and more money? Is Mateo the future long term solution at SS? Is Mateo the Orioles shortstop for the next 7-8 years? If so are we going to sign him long term? What are we doing with Urias? He's a gold glover at 3B and cannot even get regular starts at 3B. The #1 prospect in baseball is being bounced around like a pinball machine. Frazier is making $8 million dollars and not to ride the bench. Even Vavra is showing a little bit of juice. Then of course Holliday ETA is 2025 or even late 2024. So, I'm bashing Elias, I just want an answer from him. What are we doing? What is the actual plan here besides complete chaos every night with lineup and position shuffling. 

You ask a lot of questions. Hell if I know the answers. 
 

But it’s nice to have options.