Dodgers are getting desperate at SS

[bluedog]

4 minutes ago, RarityFlaherty said:

Well, I’m more talking about us valuing him as fans. I don’t think we can get what we as fans think we can get for him. And I think there’s probably more value to us with him on the team, than what we could get for him in a trade. Personally, I’d like to see if he can keep hitting. I’d be willing to risk him regressing and getting nothing for him to be able to see what kind of player he could be. 

I hear you.

I would love for Mateo to put up 12 WAR this season.

But I think the O's need better Starting Pitching and I'm not against moving Mateo (or anyone other than Adley / Gunnar) to get it, if it makes the team better.

Edited April 19, 2023 by bluedog

[bluedog]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

He doesn't even know if he needs another starter.   Gibson, Wells, Bradish,  GRod and Kremer with Means ready in July may be better than what they can trade for.   If that does not turn out to be true he may be interested in trading at that point.

Okay this is a rational argument. Cheers.

[foxfield]

13 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Miguel Rojas to the IL for the Dodgers now.

The Dodgers may well have interest in acquiring a SS at some point.  But their system is as good as ours if not better (at least according to Keith Law) so IF they do, I believe they would want someone from the current roster, not a prospect.

 

[bpilktree]

It is a shame when the poor dodgers have to let an all star SS and ace pitcher go in Turner and Scherzer the last two years because they don’t have the money to keep there guys.  What hope do us peasants have to keeping our top guys.

[HakunaSakata]

27 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

I think a deal centered around May/Mateo would get my attention.  

1,000%, I just think the Dodgers would hang up the phone if we tried to make that a starting point. May is the type of SP we should be targeting, a young MLB ready ace in the making. 

[RarityFlaherty]

1 minute ago, bluedog said:

I hear you.

I would love to Mateo to put up 12 WAR this season.

But I think the O's need better Starting Pitching and I'm not against moving Mateo (or anyone other than Adley / Gunnar) to get it, if it makes the team better.

Yeah I’m definitely not against moving him if we can get a good starter, but I don’t think anyone values him enough to really give us anything that would significantly upgrade the rotation.  I think we are better off seeing what we have for a couple months and then maybe trade some prospects to a team that’s selling around the trade deadline. 

[maybenxtyr]

3 minutes ago, bpilktree said:

It is a shame when the poor dodgers have to let an all star SS and ace pitcher go in Turner and Scherzer the last two years because they don’t have the money to keep there guys.  What hope do us peasants have to keeping our top guys.

I had to go back and look...I didn't remember Scherzer pitching for the Dodgers. I think they're going to manage after those two departed. 

[foxfield]

4 hours ago, Orioles Jim said:

I think I’d be most inclined to trade Urias in order to clear the logjam.

While I certainly share the popular sentiment that this could be a mirage with Mateo, I’d also be very hesitant to deal away the hot hand that’s currently carrying us.  Given that he was once a #1 prospect, I do think it’s possible that this isn’t a mirage (it’s not a sure thing that he’s David Newhan in other words).

I share peoples concerns that Westburg and/or Ortiz could become stars elsewhere.

I’d probably trade Urias for a reasonable return and probably try to get a premium on Mateo/Westburg/Ortiz.

 

IF we are making a trade to the Dodgers they will decide who they want.  The Orioles may have to decide to part with Urias or Mateo or whoever, based on the return.  But I don't think LA calls and asks for a prospect.  Not unless they are unloading a prospect they no longer like.

53 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I do.

I was also speaking toward your comment about how he'd trade his Grandmother.

I don't think he'd trade Adley, does he love Adley more than his Grandmother?

I think he does.  My understanding is that when his grandmother WAS traded, it was for a Grandmother to be named later and it turned out poorly.  So, yeah, I think he loves Adley more.  And hopefully he has learned his lesson.  Sometimes a Grandmother in hand, is worth two in the bush.

37 minutes ago, bluedog said:

Serious question. If you could trade a 3.0 WAR SS and replace him with a 3.0 WAR SS from within your organization and in exchange you get a 3.0 WAR SP that fills a hole in your rotation, would you do that trade?

All things being equal, I think anyone would do that.  The problem of course is that the SS who has ML experience putting up that number is blistering that pace and you are making a huge leap to think that any of the SS candidates in the minors can replicate what Mateo brings from day one.  

But this is a good point.  I think my view of Mateo is higher than many.  I think he is in the running for most underrated asset on the team perhaps just behind Urias.  I would note that many of those who are most eager to move him today for a SP, were among the same crowd that thought he should be moved off of SS for Ortiz or Henderson in spring training.

I would move anyone from this team with the exceptions of Adley, Gunnar and Grayson...and I would at least listen on them.

Too many here making season long decisions based on too little info.  If the Dodgers, call I'd listen, they are closer to a need today than they were a month or so ago, but I don't know that they need a deal strong enough to make it worthwhile.

My judgement on the Orioles and the Front Office is gonna swing on a banner that says World Series Champions somewhere between 24-27.  I care about today, but I just have more of a sense that this stuff is starting to work out in a way right before us.  Like last year, only better.

 

[orioles22]

I've been in countless debates with people who wanted Mateo gone for anything because "he can't hit" or "he's really not that good" defensively. I always thought he was still improving and could be an impact player. If he is traded though, I think it has to be for a young and top-flight starting pitcher, even if we have to add a pitcher and another piece or two.  I like Gunnar better at third, but I'd move him to short if Mateo was moved and then move him back when Holliday is ready.

[spleen1015]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I do.

I was also speaking toward your comment about how he'd trade his Grandmother.

I don't think he'd trade Adley, does he love Adley more than his Grandmother?

I love Adley more than my Grandmother.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, spleen1015 said:

I love Adley more than my Grandmother.

Me too, I only had the one and she was a bit of a Nazi...so not a high bar.

[bluedog]

1 hour ago, foxfield said:

IF we are making a trade to the Dodgers they will decide who they want.  The Orioles may have to decide to part with Urias or Mateo or whoever, based on the return.  But I don't think LA calls and asks for a prospect.  Not unless they are unloading a prospect they no longer like.

I think he does.  My understanding is that when his grandmother WAS traded, it was for a Grandmother to be named later and it turned out poorly.  So, yeah, I think he loves Adley more.  And hopefully he has learned his lesson.  Sometimes a Grandmother in hand, is worth two in the bush.

All things being equal, I think anyone would do that.  The problem of course is that the SS who has ML experience putting up that number is blistering that pace and you are making a huge leap to think that any of the SS candidates in the minors can replicate what Mateo brings from day one.  

But this is a good point.  I think my view of Mateo is higher than many.  I think he is in the running for most underrated asset on the team perhaps just behind Urias.  I would note that many of those who are most eager to move him today for a SP, were among the same crowd that thought he should be moved off of SS for Ortiz or Henderson in spring training.

I would move anyone from this team with the exceptions of Adley, Gunnar and Grayson...and I would at least listen on them.

Too many here making season long decisions based on too little info.  If the Dodgers, call I'd listen, they are closer to a need today than they were a month or so ago, but I don't know that they need a deal strong enough to make it worthwhile.

My judgement on the Orioles and the Front Office is gonna swing on a banner that says World Series Champions somewhere between 24-27.  I care about today, but I just have more of a sense that this stuff is starting to work out in a way right before us.  Like last year, only better.

 

Great response.

I think you can replace Mateo without needing to depend on an unknown in Ortiz. You move Gunnar to short and play Urias at third full time. Urias was a 2.8 WAR player in less than full time last year, so I'd expect him to replace most of Mateo's offensive production and Gunnar should be able to approach Mateo's defense at short.

I'd take Urias + Gunnar + better starting pitching over Gunnar + Mateo + worse starting pitching. 

Of course this assumes the starter we get back in trade is a solid upgrade over our current options.

[waroriole]

Dodgers allegedly desperate but OH has 13 pages on this in a few hours. As others have said, nothing is happening until June/July. 

[bluedog]

1 hour ago, RarityFlaherty said:

Yeah I’m definitely not against moving him if we can get a good starter, but I don’t think anyone values him enough to really give us anything that would significantly upgrade the rotation.  I think we are better off seeing what we have for a couple months and then maybe trade some prospects to a team that’s selling around the trade deadline. 

I am certainly not in the trade Mateo just to trade him camp. If we can't get a good starter, we should ride with the posse we've got.

[bpilktree]

1 hour ago, waroriole said:

Dodgers allegedly desperate but OH has 13 pages on this in a few hours. As others have said, nothing is happening until June/July. 

Agreed as long as Dodgers can hang around atop of there division I don’t see them in any rush.  Right now the Padres are playing poorly so not like they have to catch them.  If the Padres were blistering like the Rays are you might see them a little more desperate to nit fall to far behind but that isn’t the case right now with them.   They will slow play it.