What would it take to get Max Fried

[HelenaEngineer]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

They will probably trade Fried in the offseason. It’s not likely they do it before then.

I doubt that. They are much more likely to keep him and increase their chances of winning the Series in 2024 than trading him - unless they somehow fall out of contention. They kept Freeman and Swanson through their contracts and let them walk instead of moving them for prospects. They don't have a history of selling off talent that can help them win now for future pieces, at least not as long as they are a contender.

[Aristotelian]

6 minutes ago, HelenaEngineer said:

I doubt that. They are much more likely to keep him and increase their chances of winning the Series in 2024 than trading him - unless they somehow fall out of contention. They kept Freeman and Swanson through their contracts and let them walk instead of moving them for prospects. They don't have a history of selling off talent that can help them win now for future pieces, at least not as long as they are a contender.

And they can still hit him with a QO and receive a pick when he turns it down.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Emory Eagle said:

No way were the 2012 Orioles better than this team (at least as it looks so far).  Look at their run differential. It was a fun team, no doubt. 

Ask me when the year is over.  Due to the very soft schedule we’ve had to date, I don’t have a good fix on how the team will do over all 162 games.  Could win 90+, could be .500ish.  

[Bemorewins]

31 minutes ago, Fiver6565 said:

First of all, the Fried idea is never happening, as many have noted Atlanta has no reason or desire to trade him.  They have true championship aspirations.

Which leads me to my second of all.  We need to wrap our heads around the idea that Elias does NOT  have championship aspirations  - for this year.  He has repeatedly said the goal is a playoff berth.  Not a division title, a playoff berth.  We have to walk before we can run.  I would not expect to see Elias make a trade this major.  He'll supplement the roster a bit I imagine in July, but it won't be the massive upgrade people are clamoring for - again, talking about this year.  He's looking for long term contention, and he won't go all in this year.  The sooner people realize this, the less hand wringing there will be around here (who am I kidding, LOL).

And to me, that's OK.  He's taken a patient building approach to get us where we are, and this season will be a fun and exciting season, just as it has been so far.  And who knows, you get in the tourney and you never know what will happen - no one knows that better than the Braves, in fact.  But the next couple years after this one, when Henderson is more mature, Westburg/Ortiz/Cowser et al are up and producing in full time roles, Holliday is on the cusp - I do think he'll make a move when that time comes. 

But not in 2023, IMO.

 

(note - this doesn't mean I don't think he'll trade someone to start to clear up the logjam in the IF.  I just don't think its going to be something that blows anyone away -and it won't be for someone who won't be here in two years)

If what you are saying is true, and there are no real plans for contending for a championship, that is pathetic. That's almost like wasting a season another season. With the kind of assets that we have spread throughout the organizations, there is no such thing as "going all in". We could make a trade for Cease and Eduardo Rodriguez this season if we wanted to and STILL having more top 100 prospects than just about any team besides maybe the Dodgers (depending on who they trade) and the Guardians. 

There is really no logic need with this much abundance to operate with a 'hoarding' 'scarcity 'mentality'. We have too much to 'give away the farm' or 'mortgage the future' or whatever you want to call it.

With the roster as is or with minimal improvements, I have an answer to the "who knows what will happen?" question. We will be going home very early. There is no scenario where the talent that we currently posses on the starting staff in Kremer, Gibson, Bradish, and Wells (and that includes the high ceiling of a rookie Grayson and an unknown in Means) outperforms our competitors in the AL with what they have as we march through October on our way to the World Series. What are the odds on that 5,000 to 1 at best?

Also, there is no place to play Westburg AND Ortiz AND Norby on this team as you mentioned. Unless you want to waste top 100 prospects with silly platoons and even then it will be a struggle. We don't need 2-3 more 2B, 3B, SS on this team. But what we need is a serious true #1 pitcher. And that's not only this season, but that will be next year and into the foreseeable future. Making a pointless mediocre acquisition does nothing to solve our problems now or into the future.

If you trade for a Cease, Alcantara, etc. you don't just get them to just help for this year's stretch run, but they will still be at the peak of their powers when Holiday, Cowser, Kjerstad, etc are on the team.

Lastly, if our ownership is as indifferent as previously expressed about extensions, it's very possible that Adley only has 4 more years as an O after this one. In that scenario it appears foolish to waste time trying to draw out "when you want to try and contend seriously". 

[Sanity Check]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Ask me when the year is over.  Due to the very soft schedule we’ve had to date, I don’t have a good fix on how the team will do over all 162 games.  Could win 90+, could be .500ish.  

Are you saying that it's too early to print playoff tickets???  

[Sanity Check]

The easy answer to the thread title is.....the Braves would have to become sellers.  Until then, he's not going anywhere.

I can only make one wish come true a day, and today won't work.  Tomorrow's not looking good either.

[maybenxtyr]

1 minute ago, Sanity Check said:

Are you saying that it's too early to print playoff tickets???  

I think Tampa has already clinched...other than that it's wide open.

[eddie83]

2012 was such a unique season. 
 

The team we ended with was much different than the one we started with. 
Manny, McLouth, Gonzalez, Tillman, even Saunders, none were there at yet start. Matusz and Hunter became pen arms after struggling as starters. 
 

Example being it’s a long year. I think position player wise I like this team better. More depth. 

Edited May 5, 2023 by eddie83

[oriole]

25 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

If what you are saying is true, and there are no real plans for contending for a championship, that is pathetic. That's almost like wasting a season another season. With the kind of assets that we have spread throughout the organizations, there is no such thing as "going all in". We could make a trade for Cease and Eduardo Rodriguez this season if we wanted to and STILL having more top 100 prospects than just about any team besides maybe the Dodgers (depending on who they trade) and the Guardians. 

There is really no logic need with this much abundance to operate with a 'hoarding' 'scarcity 'mentality'. We have too much to 'give away the farm' or 'mortgage the future' or whatever you want to call it.

With the roster as is or with minimal improvements, I have an answer to the "who knows what will happen?" question. We will be going home very early. There is no scenario where the talent that we currently posses on the starting staff in Kremer, Gibson, Bradish, and Wells (and that includes the high ceiling of a rookie Grayson and an unknown in Means) outperforms our competitors in the AL with what they have as we march through October on our way to the World Series. What are the odds on that 5,000 to 1 at best?

Also, there is no place to play Westburg AND Ortiz AND Norby on this team as you mentioned. Unless you want to waste top 100 prospects with silly platoons and even then it will be a struggle. We don't need 2-3 more 2B, 3B, SS on this team. But what we need is a serious true #1 pitcher. And that's not only this season, but that will be next year and into the foreseeable future. Making a pointless mediocre acquisition does nothing to solve our problems now or into the future.

If you trade for a Cease, Alcantara, etc. you don't just get them to just help for this year's stretch run, but they will still be at the peak of their powers when Holiday, Cowser, Kjerstad, etc are on the team.

Lastly, if our ownership is as indifferent as previously expressed about extensions, it's very possible that Adley only has 4 more years as an O after this one. In that scenario it appears foolish to waste time trying to draw out "when you want to try and contend seriously". 

You must be new to Orioles fandom. The owners are grade A terrible and we are all doomed to an infinite loop of suffering with some bright spots sprinkled throughout. Sorry to be the one that breaks it to you.

 

Btw, if you’re flabbergasted then that just means you’re paying attention. 

[HelenaEngineer]

1 hour ago, Fiver6565 said:

First of all, the Fried idea is never happening, as many have noted Atlanta has no reason or desire to trade him.  They have true championship aspirations.

Which leads me to my second of all.  We need to wrap our heads around the idea that Elias does NOT  have championship aspirations  - for this year.  He has repeatedly said the goal is a playoff berth.  Not a division title, a playoff berth.  We have to walk before we can run.  I would not expect to see Elias make a trade this major.  He'll supplement the roster a bit I imagine in July, but it won't be the massive upgrade people are clamoring for - again, talking about this year.  He's looking for long term contention, and he won't go all in this year.  The sooner people realize this, the less hand wringing there will be around here (who am I kidding, LOL).

And to me, that's OK.  He's taken a patient building approach to get us where we are, and this season will be a fun and exciting season, just as it has been so far.  And who knows, you get in the tourney and you never know what will happen - no one knows that better than the Braves, in fact.  But the next couple years after this one, when Henderson is more mature, Westburg/Ortiz/Cowser et al are up and producing in full time roles, Holliday is on the cusp - I do think he'll make a move when that time comes. 

But not in 2023, IMO.

 

(note - this doesn't mean I don't think he'll trade someone to start to clear up the logjam in the IF.  I just don't think its going to be something that blows anyone away -and it won't be for someone who won't be here in two years)

I think this notion people have as rating teams as being "good enough to make the playoffs but not World Series material" is way overblown. While that sort of assessment easily holds in the NFL or the NBA, any team that makes the baseball post-season has a shot in October. Just look at the Braves in 2021 or the Phillies in 2022 or any of numerous examples through the years.

Sure winning the division and especially getting a bye improve the odds quite a bit and a lot of teams don't play well enough in the postseason to win it, but notion that any team has enough talent to make the playoffs but not enough to win the World Series is a total crock in my opinion.

[Bemorewins]

15 minutes ago, oriole said:

You must be new to Orioles fandom. The owners are grade A terrible and we are all doomed to an infinite loop of suffering with some bright spots sprinkled throughout. Sorry to be the one that breaks it to you.

 

Btw, if you’re flabbergasted then that just means you’re paying attention. 

I have been an Orioles fan since 1987 and following the team daily since 89' when I was 9 years old. I was born in the community and have lived here for most of my life... So, no new fan here.

I agree that our ownership is absolutely awful. But I'm hoping that even the evil Angelos can't mess this up...lol

[oriole]

2 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I have been an Orioles fan since 1987 and following the team daily since 89' when I was 9 years old. I was born in the community and have lived here for most of my life... So, no new fan here.

I agree that our ownership is absolutely awful. But I'm hoping that even the evil Angelos can't mess this up...lol

Elias is a different breed and I have a lot of faith in him. The owners make it really frustrating as fans because this was the perfect year to start ramping up the payroll for some proven veteran players who are above average. But I still have an optimistic view of what I’ll call “the Adley years”

[Bemorewins]

6 minutes ago, HelenaEngineer said:

I think this notion people have as rating teams as being "good enough to make the playoffs but not World Series material" is way overblown. While that sort of assessment easily holds in the NFL or the NBA, any team that makes the baseball post-season has a shot in October. Just look at the Braves in 2021 or the Phillies in 2022 or any of numerous examples through the years.

Sure winning the division and especially getting a bye improve the odds quite a bit and a lot of teams don't play well enough in the postseason to win it, but notion that any team has enough talent to make the playoffs but not enough to win the World Series is a total crock in my opinion.

While agree that the best team doesn't always win, you have to have the requisite talent once you get there. Even if that means guys who are hot or playing over their heads. Unfortunately, we simply don't have the talent to outperform our competitors in the AL. What is a realistic path given the dearth of talent with our starting staff as presently constructed that we don't tax our bullpen by October? And then if we make into the postseason, do you honestly believe that there are good odds that we win 3 ROUNDS in the American League with this staff?

[Bemorewins]

1 minute ago, oriole said:

Elias is a different breed and I have a lot of faith in him. The owners make it really frustrating as fans because this was the perfect year to start ramping up the payroll for some proven veteran players who are above average. But I still have an optimistic view of what I’ll call “the Adley years”

As far as Elias goes, I think that he was proven right not to go after any of the starters on the market (whether this was ownership imposed from the evil Angelos Empire or not). However, now (well at the deadline) is the time to get that younger top tier pitcher for much less cost. I don't see a realistic scenario where we will not need though (in addition to Grayson developing) during 'the Adley years'.

[emmett16]

2 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

Is this sarcasm? If not, what am I missing? They have the best record in the NL.

= it ain't gonna happen