Not just because of the cycle...but I've been saying this for a while..

[Moose Milligan]

I’m not gonna tally up WAR to see who was better. But as much as I liked Jones, I like Cedric a bit more. Better outfielder, better on the bases. Better approach at the plate. 

[Frobby]

42 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I’m not gonna tally up WAR to see who was better. But as much as I liked Jones, I like Cedric a bit more. Better outfielder, better on the bases. Better approach at the plate. 

Cedric’s 2021 was clearly a better year than Jones ever had.  2023 could be too, but it’s early.  

Thing is, Jones was good for a pretty long time.  I value that.  Cedric needs several more years of playing well before I can think of him as better than Jones, even though I can already say that Mullins’ absolute peak was better than Jones’.  

I wish Statcast had existed throughout Jones’ career.  It started in 2015, when Jones was 30.  At that point, his sprint speed was still 28.1, compared to Mullins’ now at age 28 at 28.0.  Even at 31, Jones was still at 28.0.   Then he fell off a cliff.  I’d love to know how fast Jones was that first year he was on the O’s, and what his OAA would have looked like.   

One area where Jones was clearly far superior was his throwing arm.  Jones in his prime had a cannon; Mullins has a semi-wet noodle.  


 

[Aristotelian]

33 minutes ago, Frobby said:

One area where Jones was clearly far superior was his throwing arm.  Jones in his prime had a cannon; Mullins has a semi-wet noodle.  


 

I don't know if they have sprint speed numbers but eye test says Mullins is faster and has better range. Offensively, Cedric has higher OBP and SB's, Jones has more power (OPS is close between the two).  I would underline the "semi", his arm has improved. I have heard more than one opposing team announcer refer to him as having a plus arm now. His Fangraphs ARM rating went from -4.8 to -0.8 from '21 to '22.

[emmett16]

4 hours ago, glenn__davis said:

I love his demeanor above all else.  In a time where we're supposed to celebrate the antics of the Randy Arozarena's of the world, give me the guy who keeps his cool and just goes about his business.

This is my favorite attribute of his.  He is a pros pro.  

[SemperFi]

2 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

I don't know if they have sprint speed numbers but eye test says Mullins is faster and has better range. Offensively, Cedric has higher OBP and SB's, Jones has more power (OPS is close between the two).  I would underline the "semi", his arm has improved. I have heard more than one opposing team announcer refer to him as having a plus arm now. His Fangraphs ARM rating went from -4.8 to -0.8 from '21 to '22.

I am skeptical of defensive metrics because as you note the stats don't match the eye test.  Lots of "big" guys with comparable straight away speed that can't cover the same amount of ground (ie Mountcastle), instincts, jump  and superior route running make up for it.  I really can't agree with a plus arm, I think he is well below average (no stats just eye test).

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

I don't know if they have sprint speed numbers but eye test says Mullins is faster and has better range.

I think Jones played for us for so long that people forget how fast he was when he first got here.  The first year he was here, I felt he was the best defensive CF I’d seen in Baltimore in a very long time. That year he was +25 Rtot, +6 Rdrs, +5.9 UZR.  He started putting on muscle after that and like almost all players (including Mullins) he slowed as he aged.

I also remember that when Jones first got here, he was comically bad at getting a decent lead off first base, so he hardly ever attempted to steal even though he was very fast.  Mullins is a much more instinctive baserunner than Jones was.  
 

[catseyepub]

He is probably the most emotionless,joyless players I've ever seen in nearly 50 years.

Still, a very good player.

[RZNJ]

On 5/13/2023 at 11:25 AM, Frobby said:

Cedric’s 2021 was clearly a better year than Jones ever had.  2023 could be too, but it’s early.  

Thing is, Jones was good for a pretty long time.  I value that.  Cedric needs several more years of playing well before I can think of him as better than Jones, even though I can already say that Mullins’ absolute peak was better than Jones’.  

I wish Statcast had existed throughout Jones’ career.  It started in 2015, when Jones was 30.  At that point, his sprint speed was still 28.1, compared to Mullins’ now at age 28 at 28.0.  Even at 31, Jones was still at 28.0.   Then he fell off a cliff.  I’d love to know how fast Jones was that first year he was on the O’s, and what his OAA would have looked like.   

One area where Jones was clearly far superior was his throwing arm.  Jones in his prime had a cannon; Mullins has a semi-wet noodle.  


 

No doubt that Jones had a very strong arm but he was no Jeff Francoer when it came to accuracy.   CF don’t typically get as many assists as RF but I don’t remember Jones throwing out a lot of runners.   I’m sure the strength of his arm kept more runners from going 1-3 or 2-H than Cedric. Overall player, I’ll take Cedric.   On approach at the plate alone, but I think Cedric is pretty close to Jones even when Jones was in his prime defensively and he was quite fast the first 2-3 years.

[interloper]

On 5/13/2023 at 2:59 PM, Frobby said:

I think Jones played for us for so long that people forget how fast he was when he first got here.  The first year he was here, I felt he was the best defensive CF I’d seen in Baltimore in a very long time. That year he was +25 Rtot, +6 Rdrs, +5.9 UZR.  He started putting on muscle after that and like almost all players (including Mullins) he slowed as he aged.

I also remember that when Jones first got here, he was comically bad at getting a decent lead off first base, so he hardly ever attempted to steal even though he was very fast.  Mullins is a much more instinctive baserunner than Jones was.  
 

Yep. We were so devoid of athletic talent when Jones arrived. He was such a breath of fresh air, I remember that very clearly. Jones was pretty raw still, but super exciting as a fan looking for anything to cling to at that point. 

Regarding how Mullins compares, the thing that sticks out to me is how much grief we gave Jones (or the coaches) for playing so shallow. I seem to recall a lot more teeth-gnashing over his CF defense than Mullins. I think Mullins makes more overall plays, although he still does miss a few that I feel like he should catch. But he feels steadier.

Your earlier point about how long Jones was a good player is really an underrated point. He and Markakis were good players for a really long time. 

[interloper]

On 5/13/2023 at 12:10 PM, emmett16 said:

This is my favorite attribute of his.  He is a pros pro.  

Ced seems like a chill guy that I would like to have a beer with. I like that he and Hays came up together because they're kind of opposite personalities. Hays was the guy beating his chest after robbing the home run. Ced robbed that home run the other day and shrugged lol.