Bullpen Hierarchy

[btdart20]

Bautista, Cano

Coulombe, Akin - These guys are trending in the right direction.  Akin has been a beast since 5/1.

Baker, Baumann - These guys are checkered.  They need to be more consistent.

Perez - He's not missing bats this year like he did last year.  Still strong 'stuff' though.  There could be another gear here.  The CB is the SLG against devil for him and he's throwing it more than he did last year.  

Voth

Givens

We have guys in the MiLB who can replace the back-end guys.

 

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, btdart20 said:

 

We have guys in the MiLB who can replace the back-end guys.

 

Who, specifically?  Not trying to be a smartass, I just don't really see legit options there outside of maybe Reed Garrett who's had a great year for Norfolk. I'm not sold on Darwinzon, Vespi, etc.

[interloper]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

Who, specifically?  Not trying to be a smartass, I just don't really see legit options there outside of maybe Reed Garrett who's had a great year for Norfolk. I'm not sold on Darwinzon, Vespi, etc.

I agree. Unless the poster is saying back-end meaning the end of the bench rather than late innings. Because I do think we can replace Voth and Perez relatively easily. But yeah, late inning guys? No way. Elias has to make a trade there. 

[tntoriole]

39 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

100%

To be fair, that is the case for any team.

BP value increases in the playoffs.

Of course, we also have the possibility that Wells goes to the pen because of innnings.

OTOh, even if he does that, I would still like to add another arm.

I agree.  The Andrew Miller tactic 

[btdart20]

4 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Who, specifically?  Not trying to be a smartass, I just don't really see legit options there outside of maybe Reed Garrett who's had a great year for Norfolk. I'm not sold on Darwinzon, Vespi, etc.

Voth's ERA/WHIP is 4.94/1.58.  That's the bar internally.  Higher upside would have to be through a trade.

A few shots on goal are:  Hall (even if he's on a different path now), Garrett, Rom, Wandisson Charles, Easton Lucas, and McDermott.  

[Moose Milligan]

4 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

Voth's ERA/WHIP is 4.94/1.58.  That's the bar internally.  Higher upside would have to be through a trade.

A few shots on goal are:  Hall (even if he's on a different path now), Garrett, Rom, Wandisson Charles, Easton Lucas, and McDermott.  

Okay, that's fair.  

Voth has set a low bar, we agree there.  But there's still some room between the low bar that Voth has set and then being a legit contributor, closer to the Cano/Bautista/Baker/Coulombe group.

 

[clapdiddy]

36 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’m not going to say Perez was great last night, but he was incredibly unlucky.  After getting the final two outs of the 7th to clean up Voth’s mess, let’s look at the 8th.

Walk.   OK, that’s bad.

Possible DP grounder to Mateo, but his footing gives way and he has to throw while on his stomach and barely gets the force at 2B.  Bad break on the footing potentially costs an out and leaves a runner on 1B.

Seeing eye ground single just out of Frazier’s reach. XBA .200 on the play.

69.1 mph grounder with an xBA of .130, which Frazier gloves but O’Hearn had foolishly gone for the ball and wasn’t in position, and Perez had failed to cover 1B.   OK, it’s on Perez that he didn’t cover the bag, but nothing wrong with his pitching.

Potential DP grounder to Mateo, who has a slight delay getting the ball out of his glove and then Frazier bobbles the transfer and can’t complete the DP.

Walk.   OK, bad on Perez.

Then Perez is removed and a subsequent run is scored on a swinging bunt single by Kirk.

That inning was frustrating, and I’m not saying Perez had no role in it, but he was very unlucky on four consecutive ground balls he induced.   

He had a very similar outing against Cleveland recently where Straw got on base on a high chopper to the mound and a couple of other grounded/doinks led to runs.  

Now, I’m not totally exonerating the guy.  He isn’t striking guys out (6.0 K/9), and sometimes when guys hit the ball, bad luck happens.   That’s why strikeouts are important.  But I’m just saying, he’s had bad luck in a couple of recent outings, including last night.  

I don't get to watch the games, but this sounds unlucky.   The few games I have seen, I've been less than impressed with Frazier's fielding ability.   He does not appear to get good first steps on balls to his right or left and doesn't appear to have a good feel for turning the DP.

[ChuckS]

6 minutes ago, clapdiddy said:

I don't get to watch the games, but this sounds unlucky.   The few games I have seen, I've been less than impressed with Frazier's fielding ability.   He does not appear to get good first steps on balls to his right or left and doesn't appear to have a good feel for turning the DP.

He's been pretty steady with his glove work and accuracy.  Arm strength is definitely lacking. 

[Bemorewins]

3 minutes ago, clapdiddy said:

I don't get to watch the games, but this sounds unlucky.   The few games I have seen, I've been less than impressed with Frazier's fielding ability.   He does not appear to get good first steps on balls to his right or left and doesn't appear to have a good feel for turning the DP.

Frazier's defense hurt him last night. But Perez has a 2.00 WHIP, that is not sustainable and not the sign of an "unlucky" pitcher. If anything with that type of traffic consistently, he is "lucky" that he hasn't given up more runs. Another thing about Perez not to like, is the K rate is WAY DOWN. He wasn't elite in that regard during last year's sensational season, but this year not good at all. I know some are clinging to "his stuff" which was really just his very good velo for a LHP. But what is happening to him and to some degree Voth, is fairly common, in terms of the volatility of relief pitching from year to year.

Neither of those guys is really helping the team at all, they can't even be trusted to get clean innings and minimal damage when the team is ahead by 9 runs late in the game.

[clapdiddy]

7 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

He's been pretty steady with his glove work and accuracy.  Arm strength is definitely lacking. 

OK...sounds good...just my observations of a few games.   Appreciate the feedback.

[Safelykept]

1 hour ago, RVAOsFan said:

Good thread, I agree with @Sports Guy another back end guy via trade to drop everyone down would be ideal.  I also question how much we should be relying on Givens.  He looks a lot older and less athletic than I remember him and I just wonder what that body has left in the tank.

Agree to agree, At this point if we get anything out of Givens or Tate I will shocked at best. Hyde does not trust Perez or Voth, neither has options. So why not cut ties with Perez. There was a BP discussion about Hall is not a better option than anybody in the BP But with Perez  with close to 2 WHIP and no trust from Hyde makes Hall with options a better  choice. My second BP option Is Rodriguez( contingent upon Irvin acting like a #5 starter). I really not see how these 2 can be worse than Perez or Voth. If so you have the Trade deadline,its only 6 weeks away time to get moving

[sportsfan8703]

What can Garrett, Darwinzon, Wandisson Charles, etc.. do?

Will Hall be converted to a reliever?  

Can Givens come back?

[interloper]

3 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

What can Garrett, Darwinzon, Wandisson Charles, etc.. do?

Will Hall be converted to a reliever?  

Can Givens come back?

I'm leaving the light on for Dillon Tate, even though his injury has been kind of a disaster this year. But - the stress reaction diagnosis at least explained his bad rehab appearances. If he still looks bad in his next batch of rehab starts, then yeah, I'm writing him off for this year. 

Must trade for a reliever. MUST.

[Moose Milligan]

I don't think we see Tate this year.  

[ChosenOne21]

2 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Who, specifically?  Not trying to be a smartass, I just don't really see legit options there outside of maybe Reed Garrett who's had a great year for Norfolk. I'm not sold on Darwinzon, Vespi, etc.

D.L. Hall, but they won't do that