Which players/prospects would you be okay with trading?

[wildcard]

2 hours ago, CaptainRedbeard said:

If you look at who is under control for the 2024 Orioles, the only notable prospects who should be ready for a 2024 MLB debut and are blocked long-term are Norby and Prieto. Those are the only prospects that I’m looking to deal imminently, although both could have even more value this off-season with a strong finish to their AAA seasons. 

Beyond that, it’s right player for right price. There realistically aren’t going to be players available worth trading Holliday, Kjerstad or Mayo for. Cowser and Westburg already have MLB roles and runway to become core players. Ortiz and Basallo are theoretically available, but would have to bring back a big return that isn’t likely to be available IMO.

I also think a Hall trade is unlikely given his depressed value and potential to be a long-term LH back-end RP, with Coulombe only under control through 2024 and Perez an impending non-tender candidate. Povich is the only upper-level P prospect with a realistic chance to stick as a SP. Fabian is the only upper level OF with starting CF potential. I think all 3 are available, but unlikely to get dealt given the current composition of the organization.

I think we’re going to see deadline deals for a rental SP, rental RP and/or RP with additional control and only be trading from Norby, Prieto or prospects not listed above. Then this offseason they’ll be after SP, but remains to be seen whether they’ll do that via free agency or via trade. 

Stowers?

[Frobby]

I’d trade any player or prospect, if the return is better than what we’re giving up and makes our team better for the short and long term.  Nobody should ever be untouchable.  But obviously, the price for sone guys is much higher than others.  

Edited July 27, 2023 by Frobby

[G54377]

The easiest way to put it: I am not trading the main guys for rentals. I think we can still get deals done for players lower on the list. Our team is not close enough to a finished product to risk trading a guy like Ortiz or Basallo. If there's an elite guy still under control for several years? Then I'd listen for those type of guys. But I don't think that type of player is going to be available. Someone like Wagner or Povich I'd consider for an "elite" rental.

[CHIP]

On 7/26/2023 at 11:00 AM, interloper said:

Hm, that's pretty disappointing to hear. What's been going wrong for him at 1B? 

Glad I went back a message to see what @Tony-OH said about Kjerstad's defense issues in the OF.  I had witnessed and even asked a couple guys that know a lot more than I do.  The kid 'rakes' as my son and his friends say but to me, he is a defensive liability.  They say if you can hit, they will find a position for you somewhere.  It feels like they really are trying to find a position.  Ultimately, as a fan, it kills me to watch him cost games in Norfolk but at the same time the Minors are about winning games for the O's.

It is my personal perspective that Norby is the same with respect to 2B or 3B but he does have more potential defensively at Kjerstad but for Norby his offense is a tick behind Kjerstad.

[25 Nuggets]

4 hours ago, CHIP said:

Glad I went back a message to see what @Tony-OH said about Kjerstad's defense issues in the OF.  I had witnessed and even asked a couple guys that know a lot more than I do.  The kid 'rakes' as my son and his friends say but to me, he is a defensive liability.  They say if you can hit, they will find a position for you somewhere.  It feels like they really are trying to find a position.  Ultimately, as a fan, it kills me to watch him cost games in Norfolk but at the same time the Minors are about winning games for the O's.

It is my personal perspective that Norby is the same with respect to 2B or 3B but he does have more potential defensively at Kjerstad but for Norby his offense is a tick behind Kjerstad.

well... there have been surprisingly few teams that, post steroid-era, had a full time DH giving them 30 HR a season.

[Greg Pappas]

15 hours ago, CHIP said:

Glad I went back a message to see what @Tony-OH said about Kjerstad's defense issues in the OF.  I had witnessed and even asked a couple guys that know a lot more than I do.  The kid 'rakes' as my son and his friends say but to me, he is a defensive liability.  They say if you can hit, they will find a position for you somewhere.  It feels like they really are trying to find a position.  Ultimately, as a fan, it kills me to watch him cost games in Norfolk but at the same time the Minors are about winning games for the O's.

It is my personal perspective that Norby is the same with respect to 2B or 3B but he does have more potential defensively at Kjerstad but for Norby his offense is a tick behind Kjerstad.

This is very informative.  I've felt, as many have, that Norby will be traded at some point soon, so his defensive shortcomings can be another team's concern.  Kjerstad essentially being a DH and perhaps spot starter at 1B moving forward is an eye-opening insight.  

I know many will disagree, but until Holliday is ready, I would setup the team next year this way:

1B    #Anthony Santander
2B    Jordan Westburg
SS    Joey Ortiz
3B    *Gunnar Henderson
CA    #Adley Rutschman
LF    Austin Hays
CF    *Cedric Mullins
RF    *Colton Cowser
DH    *Heston Kjerstad

From what I've read, Ortiz is our best defender at SS, though Gunnar shows real upside there as well.  I don't think, however, that Elias envisions Ortiz starting here, because he already should be.  So, right off the bat this setup is probably wrong.  If Ortiz is moved or finds a bench role, Gunnar would be at SS, Westburg at 2B/3B and maybe Urias at 2B/3B?
Hopefully Mayo can develop in RF and 1B at AAA next season and be ready to join the big league club.  If not, I imagine him as a DH type as well, though that's my own speculation based on his struggles at 3B.  I'd love more thoughts on Mayo's defensive future if you have time.  I'd also love to read a breakdown of Ortiz v Gunnar v Holliday as SS.  Maybe Holliday winds up at 2B if Hyde prefers Gunnar at SS?   So many questions... forgive me. LOL

Edited July 28, 2023 by Greg Pappas

[OriolesMagic83]

I Would be ok with trading Ortiz, Fabian, Norby, Prieto, and one of Kjerstad/Mayo.  Elias didn't draft Holliday to be a 2b man.  Prieto has limited power.  Kjerstad and Mayo play the same position.  It would be dumb to make top prospects utility players.  The O's need some better pitching to beat the likes of the Braves, Ray's, Dodgers and Astros.

[Alasdaire]

33 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Elias didn't draft Holliday to be a 2b man.  Prieto has limited power.

Banning the shift changes the equation on the right side of the infield. Probably have to wait until the offseason to get quantitative postmortems, but it feels to me like you can't hide a bad defender at second like you use to be able to. There should be a bit of a knock-on effect for the first baseman too which rewards the better defenders there like we've seen Bryce Harper flash within the past week.

If we have plus defenders on the left side in Gunnar at 3B and Joey at SS, I would be perfectly happy with Jackson at 2B. And Mayo at first is fine with me at 1B too for the same reasons. Are we complaining about a defensive infield of 1B Mayo/2B Holliday/3B Henderson/SS Ortiz?

I don't agree with the fixation people have on forcing either Gunnar or Holliday into SS. When you have a bonafide blue-chip defensive shortstop like Joey Ortiz who has given you more than enough of an indication that he can hit, the fact that Gunnar or Jackson signed for higher draft bonuses or are better hitters doesn't take away from that.

And if you want to be cynical about it, say all three of these players realize their potential--which one would most likely sign a second contract and be the shortstop for the next decade? Gunnar and Jackson could price themselves out of Baltimore.

[SemperFi]

7 hours ago, Alasdaire said:

Banning the shift changes the equation on the right side of the infield. Probably have to wait until the offseason to get quantitative postmortems, but it feels to me like you can't hide a bad defender at second like you use to be able to. There should be a bit of a knock-on effect for the first baseman too which rewards the better defenders there like we've seen Bryce Harper flash within the past week.

If we have plus defenders on the left side in Gunnar at 3B and Joey at SS, I would be perfectly happy with Jackson at 2B. And Mayo at first is fine with me at 1B too for the same reasons. Are we complaining about a defensive infield of 1B Mayo/2B Holliday/3B Henderson/SS Ortiz?

I don't agree with the fixation people have on forcing either Gunnar or Holliday into SS. When you have a bonafide blue-chip defensive shortstop like Joey Ortiz who has given you more than enough of an indication that he can hit, the fact that Gunnar or Jackson signed for higher draft bonuses or are better hitters doesn't take away from that.

And if you want to be cynical about it, say all three of these players realize their potential--which one would most likely sign a second contract and be the shortstop for the next decade? Gunnar and Jackson could price themselves out of Baltimore.

Harper is fortunate the "unwritten" rules of MLB have changed, can't go across the bag like that on the O'Hearn grounder.  He would get spiked or a ball in the ear, so dangerous.  

[SemperFi]

One of the things Elias needs to be concerned with is that given the financial constraints of the franchise all these arb years and possible extensions have to be spaced out in order  to keep the team competitive.  That's why in my opinion why Basallo is in the untouchable tier.

[Frobby]

Here is a ranking of our best trade chips according to MLB Trade Values.  I don’t consider anyone untouchable, as explained above   But I’ve put an asterisk by the ones I’d be most reluctant to trade.

Rutschman $91.2 mm*

Henderson $81.6 mm*

Holliday $67.6 mm*

Rodriguez $46.6 mm*

Bradish $41.4 mm*

Mayo $39.1 mm

Bautista $38.0 mm*

Cowser $35.8 mm

Mullins $32.6 mm

Kjerstad $19.9 mm

Westburg $19.3 mm

Basallo $19.2 mm

Kremer $18.8 mm*

Ortiz $16.3 mm

Hays $15.9 mm

Cano $15.8 mm

Wells $15.5 mm*

Hall $14.6 mm

Baker $12.1 mm
 

[RZNJ]

I think Hays is the one to go this off-season with Cowser his replacement in LF.   Hays’ value is driven by his average.  When he slumps he’s an out machine.  Sure, Santander will be the more expensive and closer to FA but he’s a SH, power bat, and can be rotated to 1B/DH.   He also seems to be more of a team leader not to diminish Hays in that role.

I’m going to go against the grain on which prospects I would trade.   As Frobby said, no one should be untouchable.  I’d try to avoid Holliday and Basallo for sure.   It seems everyone has Mayo as untouchable.   He’s the latest greatest thing and I get it.  Huge power bat. BUT, we don’t know what kind of defense he’ll provide at 1B or RF so we’re talking non premium defensive position with questions.   I also don’t know just how good a hitter he’s going to be.  He’s got a lot of value.   I would not haven a huge problem using him to get something back.  However, in the rental type deals it certainly shouldn’t require someone like Mayo.

[Three Run Homer]

After reading through this thread, I have changed my mind on Kjerstad.  If he can be the centerpiece of a trade for a good controllable starter, let's do it.  I think he's going to hit 30-40 HR a year with a good OBP, but this team doesn't have room for a full-time DH going forward, given that we want Adley's bat in the lineup every day.  

Elias also places a premium on defensive ability and flexibility, so I think Norby and Kjerstad are the two most likely big names to be traded, along with side pieces like Prieto and Stowers.  

 

[wildcard]

2 hours ago, SemperFi said:

One of the things Elias needs to be concerned with is that given the financial constraints of the franchise all these arb years and possible extensions have to be spaced out in order  to keep the team competitive.  That's why in my opinion why Basallo is in the untouchable tier.

But Gibson 10m, Frazier 8m, Santander 7.4m, Givens 5m, Mateo 2m and Voth 1.85m are probably gone next season.   That is 34.25m

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

I think Hays is the one to go this off-season with Cowser his replacement in LF.   Hays’ value is driven by his average.  When he slumps he’s an out machine.  Sure, Santander will be the more expensive and closer to FA but he’s a SH, power bat, and can be rotated to 1B/DH.   He also seems to be more of a team leader not to diminish Hays in that role.

I’m going to go against the grain on which prospects I would trade.   As Frobby said, no one should be untouchable.  I’d try to avoid Holliday and Basallo for sure.   It seems everyone has Mayo as untouchable.   He’s the latest greatest thing and I get it.  Huge power bat. BUT, we don’t know what kind of defense he’ll provide at 1B or RF so we’re talking non premium defensive position with questions.   I also don’t know just how good a hitter he’s going to be.  He’s got a lot of value.   I would not haven a huge problem using him to get something back.  However, in the rental type deals it certainly shouldn’t require someone like Mayo.

I am not with you on this one.   I think Elias keeps Hays and Mullins as his veteran presence through 2024 and trades Santander rather than sign him to a 4 or 5 year contract.    Cowser and Kjerstad replacing Santander.  Its kind of what Elias has been setting up with the development of the farm system.

Mayo profiles as a big bat that probably fits at 1B sometime next season.  O'Hearn will be in his walk year next year so he either signs a one year contract with an option year or they trade him.  I think he would be happy to sign and stay.  Mountcastle is a question depending on how long Elias thinks it will take to develop Mayo as a 1B.   

Both Mayo and Holliday appear to me to have bats that are ahead of their gloves.   Neither has to be rushed to the majors at the beginning of 2024.  We will see.