Which players/prospects would you be okay with trading?

[pdiddy]

I want to keep Mountcastle on the big club - his issues are well known but he’s got ridiculous power and if he gets hot for a decent stretch he can make a big difference in putting the division away.

Norby and anyone outside of the top 10 except Seth Johnson for me are fair game in the minors. 
 

 

[e16bball]

For me, I think the one that stands out is Westburg.

I think he looks like a good, solid player — good approach, we know he has pop, defense looks better than I expected, seems like a gamer, all that good stuff.

But at the end of the day, if we’re going to bring back someone who really makes a difference, I think we’re going to have to dip into the higher end of our prospect pool. I don’t want to move Mayo or Kjerstad because they have rare power that I think we’ll need to supplement the other guys for whom OBP is more the carrying offensive skill — which I think will be especially necessary if and when Santander moves on.

That leaves Ortiz, Cowser, and Westburg. And given where we stand in the infield — with two spots basically earmarked for Henderson and Holliday long-term — I think it comes down to either Ortiz or Westburg. 

That decision likely gets made by the imaginary trade partner (I.e., which one they prefer), but if left to my druthers, I think I lean towards keeping Ortiz. Based on their MiL track records, I think it’s close to a coin flip as to which of them ends up the better hitter. But from all reports, I know with great confidence that Ortiz will have more defensive value (and versatility), so that certainty gives him the edge for me. 

I certainly don’t want to trade Westburg. But if we’re fishing for good young controllable SPs like Cease or *insert Mariners SP* or *insert Marlins SP*, I don’t think Stowers/Norby/Prieto is going to cut it.

[Just Regular]

I'm curious others takes, but I think Westburg really kind of is his own tier as a trade piece.

Every other "important" Oriole - its almost instantly obvious to me if they are more or less valuable than Westburg.

Are there any other Orioles right now who seem to you to be "the same" as Westburg as a medium to long term piece?

Does he have enough separation from other 2B possibilities to rate as a priority keep?    The friends thing with Gunnar might be real.      

[interloper]

13 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

I'm curious others takes, but I think Westburg really kind of is his own tier as a trade piece.

Every other "important" Oriole - its almost instantly obvious to me if they are more or less valuable than Westburg.

Are there any other Orioles right now who seem to you to be "the same" as Westburg as a medium to long term piece?

Does he have enough separation from other 2B possibilities to rate as a priority keep?    The friends thing with Gunnar might be real.      

To me, Westburg and Ortiz are in the same tier. Cowser I view as one tick below them simply because I think teams view him as a COF rather than CF. 

This is how I'd personally rank them in terms of trade tiers:

Holliday, Grayson
Mayo, Kjerstad, Basallo
Westburg, Ortiz, Povich
Cowser, Hall, Johnson
Norby, Prieto, Stowers, Rom
Wagner, Beavers, etc
 

Edited July 26, 2023 by interloper

[Tony-OH]

53 minutes ago, ShoelesJoe said:

Good list, but Holliday is absolutely in the untouchable group. 

That was an oversight probably because he's the most untouchable I wouldn't consider him for just about anyone that would be available.. Absolutely he belongs there. I'll fix that.

[George Zuverink]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

From the big club, I'm ok with moving Mateo, Urias, Mountcastle, and McKenna even though with the injuries in CF McKenna has become more valuable. I actually may take a look at Mateo out there if they want to keep him on the team.

For Prospects, the guys that have good value that I'm ok to move in the right deal are: 

Willems
Norby
Stowers
Fabian
Wagner
Prieto
Hall
Beavers
Anyone from 17 and below on the Prospect Power Rankings

Guys I'd move but only for an absolute impact player with some retainability (not a half year rental)
Westburg
Cowser
Kjerstad
Ortiz
Povich

Untouchable for me:
Mayo
Basallo
 

 

 

 

Great way of thinking about it. How about that Holliday feller? Amazing how much Mayo and Basallo have skyrocketed ? 

[Tony-OH]

55 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

How far below average is he, and for what position?

He's basically unplayable at 1B right now and below average in his jumps and routes from what I've seen in corner outfield. His below average speed (45) doesn't make up for it.

[Three Run Homer]

5 minutes ago, interloper said:

To me, Westburg and Ortiz are in the same tier. Cowser I view as one tick below them simply because I think teams view him as a COF rather than CF. 

This is how I'd personally rank them in terms of trade tiers:

Holliday, Grayson
Mayo, Kjerstad, Basallo
Westburg, Ortiz, Povich
Cowser, Hall, Johnson
Norby, Prieto, Stowers, Rom
Wagner, Beavers, etc
 

I mostly agree with this, although I think Fabian is a little better than an etc.  I might move Povich and Johnson down a notch--I know pitching is scarce in this organization but we shouldn't overvalue our pitching prospects because of that.  

[interloper]

2 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

He's basically unplayable at 1B right now and below average in his jumps and routes from what I've seen in corner outfield. His below average speed (45) doesn't make up for it.

Hm, that's pretty disappointing to hear. What's been going wrong for him at 1B? 

[Tony-OH]

Just now, interloper said:

Hm, that's pretty disappointing to hear. What's been going wrong for him at 1B? 

@CHIP has been describing his issues througout the board and can give you a batter breakdown. I'd just say he looks very inexperienced over there ad needs a ton of work to be playable at 1B at the major league level. 

[interloper]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

@CHIP has been describing his issues througout the board and can give you a batter breakdown. I'd just say he looks very inexperienced over there ad needs a ton of work to be playable at 1B at the major league level. 

Gotcha. As an aside, I'm pretty amazed at how good Santander has looked over there. Small sample, but yeah.

[Just Regular]

1 hour ago, interloper said:

This is how I'd personally rank them in terms of trade tiers:

Holliday, Grayson
Mayo, Kjerstad, Basallo
Westburg, Ortiz, Povich
Cowser, Hall, Johnson

Tier 4 Cowser - ouch!

[Just Regular]

51 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

@CHIP has been describing his issues througout the board and can give you a batter breakdown. I'd just say he looks very inexperienced over there ad needs a ton of work to be playable at 1B at the major league level. 

I bet he's got a better forearm shiver than Bryce Harper!

[DanS]

Buck and I like our guys, but Captain Obvious says the org is out of balance.  Using the current prospect power ranking from @Tony-OH, the top 9 guys are position players, mostly in AA or above.  We need to get pitchers.

For me, the key to the puzzle is Coby Mayo.  He's a great prospect, but Gunnar blocks him at third.  The team needs to decide where Mayo plays, and fill out the roster accordingly.  If he moves to 1b, you don't need all of your 1b guys.  If you want his arm in the outfield, you have another extra outfielder.  A pure max value guy could argue to trade him as a 3b, but you would need a huge return to make that deal.  I would like to see him get more reps at 1b, but the team should make a decision ASAP.

Would you move Gunnar to SS and play Mayo at 3b?  I suppose that puts Holliday at 2b, which leaves Ortiz and Westburg available.  If Mayo goes to 1b, pick one of Ortiz and Westburg.

After you lay out the roster starting with your best guys, you see who are the extra guys.  It looks to me like we can trade more than one guy from the top 10 and still have plenty of position players.  You don't need Willems and Basallo, especially if Mayo goes to 1b.  Pick one of Cowser and Kjerstad.

It hurts to see I guy you traded become a star, but if you get comparable value at a position of need, you live with that.  You won't likely get a top pitcher dealing only the lower prospects.

[interloper]

2 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

Tier 4 Cowser - ouch!

You can think of it as 3A if you want, because that's kind of how I see it. Like I said, it's more because I don't think we can really convince other teams he's a true CF. So teams would be acquiring a COF bat whose carrying tool is NOT power. So I think he's a little less attractive than either of the middle infielders in tier 3.