Angelos wanted two year lease extension

[EddeeEddee]

9 hours ago, baloriole4 said:

Below is list of 2023 DMA rankings from #21-30.   Nashville looks pretty close to us  (hello Indy above us at #25).    Is Nashville "significantly smaller than Baltimore" based on the greater metropolitan area?   I'm trying to understand.     But if greater metro area, the greater Baltimore metro area is also not so clear MLB preference wise, as many parts of Howard County, Anne Arundel County and of course the counties below there are now split Orioles/Nats

Charlotte also a much larger media market than Baltimore

https://methodshop.com/nielsen-dma-rankings-full-list/    "Markets are ranked by population and change slightly each year based on regional growth or decline."

Portland, OR (#21)

Charlotte (#22)

St. Louis (#23)

Raleigh-Durham (Fayetteville) (#24)

Indianapolis (#25)

Pittsburgh (#26)

San Diego (#27)

Baltimore (#28)

Nashville (#29)

Salt Lake City (#30)

You're using Nielsen DMA rankings.  Nielsen rankings are specific to TV markets, not population in general.  Also many consider Nielsen outdated in the era of streaming, but even before streaming I'm not sure how relevant it is considering the unique economics of local sports cable television. 

I'm not sure why Charlotte is ranked higher than Baltimore when Baltimore has a bit larger population.  Maybe in general people just watch more TV there.  But do they or would they watch more MLB baseball than a proven baseball market like Baltimore?  Especially Orioles baseball.  That's where the major risk is.

Anyway, I was going off of population size based metro area info from Wikipedia, which is mostly based on data from the US Census Bureau between 2020 and 2022.  From this Baltimore is the 20th largest metro area, while Charlotte is 23rd and Nashville is 35th.  You can see from the 2022 estimate that the Baltimore region has nearly 800,000 more people than Nashville.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_statistical_area

 

 

[LookitsPuck]

On 8/10/2023 at 8:23 AM, spleen1015 said:

Could they do what the Braves did and move the O's out of Baltimore city to one of the surrounding counties?

No. Not without them getting separate funding. Some key takeaways from the House Bill 896 (https://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2022RS/bills/hb/hb0896T.pdf):

• It has to be the sports facilities at Camden Yards - not elsewhere in the state
• Has to be a long term lease

They're need approval from the General Assembly with the Board of Public Works referring it. 

They're not moving out of the city.

[LookitsPuck]

On 8/10/2023 at 11:01 AM, Frobby said:

I don’t find it reassuring at all.  The team is going nowhere in 2024.   A two year extension would be just long enough for Angelos to figure out a Plan B to move the team.  Remember, he had an option to renew the lease for five years, and didn’t execute it.  That would have been an easy way to stall for time while negotiating plans for Camden Crossing or whatever.   But it sounds like Angelos wants a quicker out if things don’t work out to his satisfaction.  No way the MSA should agree to that.  

He's not going to be able to move the team to Nashville. He'd be encroaching on the Reds, Braves, Cardinals, White Sox, Cubs, and Royals. I don't even think that Nashville would get an expansion team because of this. Vegas was super easy for the A's because...who the heck are they encroaching on? 

Just remember how much hellfire Peter Angelos brought on the Nats coming to town. And that's *1* team being encroached on (I suppose the Phillies could have argued, too). Imagine 6.

[Number5]

1 minute ago, LookitsPuck said:

White Sox, Cubs, and Royals

??

[LookitsPuck]

9 hours ago, baloriole4 said:

Below is list of 2023 DMA rankings from #21-30.   Nashville looks pretty close to us  (hello Indy above us at #25).    Is Nashville "significantly smaller than Baltimore" based on the greater metropolitan area?   I'm trying to understand.     But if greater metro area, the greater Baltimore metro area is also not so clear MLB preference wise, as many parts of Howard County, Anne Arundel County and of course the counties below there are now split Orioles/Nats

Charlotte also a much larger media market than Baltimore

https://methodshop.com/nielsen-dma-rankings-full-list/    "Markets are ranked by population and change slightly each year based on regional growth or decline."

Portland, OR (#21)

Charlotte (#22)

St. Louis (#23)

Raleigh-Durham (Fayetteville) (#24)

Indianapolis (#25)

Pittsburgh (#26)

San Diego (#27)

Baltimore (#28)

Nashville (#29)

Salt Lake City (#30)

Nashville is roughly half the metropolitan size of Baltimore. 

[Baltimorecuse]

I wonder if the Peter Angelos trust allows little Johnnie to move the team?  

[accinfo]

1 hour ago, LookitsPuck said:

Nashville is roughly half the metropolitan size of Baltimore. 

Yes it is but more people are moving there each year than anywhere else in the USA.  I also think MLB will look at this as a regional franchise with big cties, Knoxville and Memphis about 3 hours away.  There is also big money down there because of the music business.

[sportsfan8703]

I hope they give Angelos the money and let him develop the area. At least this investment will work. The city has to try something. The casino got a good deal too. As did Port Covington. 

[eddie83]

1 minute ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I hope they give Angelos the money and let him develop the area. At least this investment will work. The city has to try something. The casino got a good deal too. As did Port Covington. 

Why? Call his bluff. He wants this deal for himself not the team. This is all about his personal wealth. 
 

Its remarkable what he is trying to do. It’s a joke and shows what kind of a person he is, not that we don’t already know. 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I hope they give Angelos the money and let him develop the area. At least this investment will work. The city has to try something. The casino got a good deal too. As did Port Covington. 

I wouldn't trust John to run any investments on my city's dime.

[sportsfan8703]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I wouldn't trust John to run any investments on my city's dime.

The stadium has been there for 30 years. Only the Casino and Too Golf has been built. As a fan, and someone that lives 15 mins south, I’d like to see them put some more stuff down there. Nobody else has been able to do anything down there other than gambling. 

[spiritof66]

2 hours ago, LookitsPuck said:

He's not going to be able to move the team to Nashville. He'd be encroaching on the Reds, Braves, Cardinals, White Sox, Cubs, and Royals. I don't even think that Nashville would get an expansion team because of this. Vegas was super easy for the A's because...who the heck are they encroaching on? 

Just remember how much hellfire Peter Angelos brought on the Nats coming to town. And that's *1* team being encroached on (I suppose the Phillies could have argued, too). Imagine 6.

What do you mean by "encroaching on'? Do these teams have the right to keep an expansion team out of Nashville, and if so where does that right come from?

Sure, if and when there's a proposal to put an expansion team in Nashville, a few teams might squawk that it will hurt them and might even vote against awarding a franchise in MLB history to the majority-minority group put together by Dave Stewart, which has been making plans for a stadium and other arrangements for years. I don't think they the owners will block putting a franchise in Nashville, and the team there won't have anything to do with anyone named Angelos.

[LookitsPuck]

20 minutes ago, accinfo said:

Yes it is but more people are moving there each year than anywhere else in the USA.  I also think MLB will look at this as a regional franchise with big cties, Knoxville and Memphis about 3 hours away.  There is also big money down there because of the music business.

Within 45 minutes to 1.5 hours from Baltimore you have: DC (nearly 700k), Philadelphia (1.6 million). Baltimore City and County combined is nearly 1.5m. I can go on if you go 3 hours out.

Official census data on Nashville shows an estimated population (as of 2022) of 684k. That's down from what they collected in 2020 (690k). To put things in perspective, the population of Baltimore County in 2020 was 854k, but in 2022 (estimated) was 846k. Both of those markets were down ~1%. Nashville isn't some panacea. It's a risk. 

[sportsfan8703]

If Angelos doesn’t develop that land then who will?  Might as well be him. At least it will benefit us the fans. 

[LookitsPuck]

4 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

What do you mean by "encroaching on'? Do these teams have the right to keep an expansion team out of Nashville, and if so where does that right come from?

Sure, if and when there's a proposal to put an expansion team in Nashville, a few teams might squawk that it will hurt them and might even vote against awarding a franchise in MLB history to the majority-minority group put together by Dave Stewart, which has been making plans for a stadium and other arrangements for years. I don't think they the owners will block putting a franchise in Nashville, and the team there won't have anything to do with anyone named Angelos.

Regional TV markets matter tremendously. See: MASN. Not to mention fanbases in general.

This isn't a situation of a few teams. This is a situation of upwards of 6 teams all having an issue. Not to mention some of the animus from other team owners (say: the Nationals). I think it's a non-starter for relocation. Maybe there's a world in which Nashville gets an expansion team. Stewart has been trying for the better part of a decade. And maybe his $2bn bid will work out for an expansion team. But there are bigger/better markets.