The O's ARE a small market team -- but so what?

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, brucewayne said:

The DC suburbs is wealthier than the Baltimore area. Those fans are Nationals fans. Our state economy is not growing. Our competitors are. We become a smaller market every year. Everybody with money leaves. Martin O'Malley made sure of that with his tax hikes. The first rule of state and local taxes is the more you tax the less money you have. The tax base leaves to another state.

No politics on the board.   

[Osornot]

@Frobby after reading your article and the time you put into the research (as usual) two things happened.  After years of being lazy and not subscribing / supporting Tony and the Hangout folks I finally and immediately subscribed.  Second, either John Angelos is completely 1) clueless 2) believes he can negotiate like dad 3) trying to prove something to dad or 4) all of the above.  I go for 4.

[TonySoprano]

@Frobby can you give us a link to the RSMS list?  Thanks.

[brucewayne]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

No politics on the board.   

I'm having a hard time understanding what your observation is here in this thread. You seem to be suggesting that there isnt much competitive advantage in being a large market team. When in the last 30 years only 1 small market team or to be more precise only 1 team with a bottom 3rd payroll has won. There is a relationship between market size, payroll and championships.

[Frobby]

46 minutes ago, TonySoprano said:

@Frobby can you give us a link to the RSMS list?  Thanks.

It takes a bit of scrolling.  Here is a link to the new CBA.  The list appears at page 254 of the document/page 270 of the PDF.   So far as I know, the new CBA was only recently posted on the MLBPA website, long after the 2022 work stoppage was resolved.  I’ve been looking for it ever since. 

[Frobby]

19 minutes ago, brucewayne said:

I'm having a hard time understanding what your observation is here in this thread. You seem to be suggesting that there isnt much competitive advantage in being a large market team. When in the last 30 years only 1 small market team or to be more precise only 1 team with a bottom 3rd payroll has won. There is a relationship between market size, payroll and championships.

My observation is that (1) the O’s are a small market team, but (2) they are nowhere near the payroll they can afford and they can certainly afford to sign a few long term deals if they are careful about it.  I am not at all suggesting that there is no competitive advantage in being a large market team.  Of course there is.   

And none of that relates to my no politics on the board comment.  That’s a clear board rule.
 

Edited August 23, 2023 by Frobby

[baltfan]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

No politics on the board.   

It seems pretty consistent the side that doesn't believe that the no politics rule applies to it.  

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, baltfan said:

It seems pretty consistent the side that doesn't believe that the no politics rule applies to it.  

Most people follow the rule pretty well - thankfully.  

[Jim'sKid26]

18 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Most people follow the rule pretty well - thankfully.  

Except for those who feel that the rules don't apply to them. 

[brucewayne]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

My observation is that (1) the O’s are a small market team, but (2) they are nowhere near the payroll they can afford and they can certainly afford to sign a few long term deals if they are careful about it.  I am not at all suggesting that there is no competitive advantage in being a large market team.  Of course there is.   

And none of that relates to my no politics on the board comment.  That’s a clear board rule.
 

You may be correct. I havent seen their financials. 

[Frobby]

5 minutes ago, brucewayne said:

You may be correct. I havent seen their financials. 

What, you didn’t see them when John Angelos showed them?  

[SemperFi]

How MLB views market size from the most recent CBA. Defined market area is in there somewhere but I can't find it, I know that the Nationals received PG and Montgomery.

Unfortunately, I cannot seem to format this correctly but it is on page 254 of the attached CBA.  Note that MLB views the Orioles as having the 23rd largest market. DC is 10th. 

ATTACHMENT 26 REVENUE SHARING MARKET SCORE *  RANK CLUB SCORE 1 NYY 235 1 NYM 235 3 LAA 180 3 LAD 180 5 CHI 120 5 CWS 120 7 TOR 115 8 OAK 111 8 SF 111 10 WSH 110 11 PHI 110 12 BOS 102 13 TEX 99 14 ATL 97 15 HOU 92 16 SEA 87 17 MIN 79 18 ARI 76 19 TB 74 20 DET 73 21 COL 73 22 MIA 69 23 BAL 68 24 SD 62 25 CLE 62 26 STL 58 27 PIT 56 28 KC 55 29 CIN 51 30 MIL 5

https://tinyurl.com/cpyaza5d

[TonySoprano]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

It takes a bit of scrolling.  Here is a link to the new CBA.  The list appears at page 254 of the document/page 270 of the PDF.   So far as I know, the new CBA was only recently posted on the MLBPA website, long after the 2022 work stoppage was resolved.  I’ve been looking for it ever since. 

There must be some secret sauce baked into how they come up with those numbers.

Going by 2022 Metropolitan Statistical Area data, Baltimore is 20th, 2.835M; DC is 6th, 6.373M.  Tampa is 17th 3.290M;  Milwaukee is 40th

San Diego is 18th 3.276M, on MLBs chart their 24th, yet they have the 3rd highest payroll, maybe Angelos can reconcile how they do it.

Note to John Angelos, Nashville is 35th, 2.046M 1.559M

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_statistical_area

Edited August 23, 2023 by TonySoprano

[brucewayne]

8 minutes ago, TonySoprano said:

There must be some secret sauce baked into how they come up with those numbers.

Going by 2022 Metropolitan Statistical Area data, Baltimore is 20th, 2.835M; DC is 6th, 6.373M.  Tampa is 17th 3.290M;  Milwaukee is 40th

San Diego is 18th 3.276M, on MLBs chart their 24th, yet they have the 3rd highest payroll, maybe Angelos can reconcile how they do it.

Note to John Angelos, Nashville is 35th, 2.046M 1.559M

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_statistical_area

Nashville is a growing city with a bright future ahead. Baltimore was once the 2nd largest city in America. And was the 7th largest city as recently as 1970. Our GDP is stagnant in the state of Maryland. And all the growth is concentrated in the DC suburbs which is Nationals market. Baltimore is the murder capital of the country. Has a terrible school system, has sky high taxes and lacks economic opportunity. This is a failed city. Just like Detroit is. Baltimore will only further decay. 

[SemperFi]

2 hours ago, TonySoprano said:

There must be some secret sauce baked into how they come up with those numbers.

Going by 2022 Metropolitan Statistical Area data, Baltimore is 20th, 2.835M; DC is 6th, 6.373M.  Tampa is 17th 3.290M;  Milwaukee is 40th

San Diego is 18th 3.276M, on MLBs chart their 24th, yet they have the 3rd highest payroll, maybe Angelos can reconcile how they do it.

Note to John Angelos, Nashville is 35th, 2.046M 1.559M

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_statistical_area

It's odd as specific as the CBA is I couldn't find the formula either, but it's certainly biased in the Orioles favor versus other demographic based models as you note above.  Sorry for the double post, hadn't realized Frobby listed the CBA/share.