Pay the Man!

[geschinger]

I would like to expand on that, this is not a pure business move. This is Baltimore and we do like our heroes. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to sell tickets to thousands of "no-shows." They don't spend any additional money at the games. It's much better to put thousands of warm butts in cheaper seats who consume large amounts of beer, cokes, ballcaps, any make lots of noise and excitement. More importantly is the fact that this franchise has to maintain and increase it's fan base.

Brian Roberts is the face of the club, he represents all that was good and exciting about our storied past. In many way he's the last touchstone to that tradition. He's the hard-nose, give-it all you can blue collar guy we love.

Sometimes, it's smart to ignore what your "purely business" instincts say, and do what is best for the player, the fans, and the club.

Four years for forty million is what he wants, give it to him. He'll earn that extra ten million, and we show our fans and the rest of the baseball world that Baltimore rewards it's heroes and wants them to remain in town.

One has to ask what will maximize the number of fans that come to the ballpark. I believe it is putting a winning team on the field. The Orioles are not in a position where they have unlimited resources. Handing out an extra year or two, an extra ten million means that there is less resources to address other areas.

We are in a divsion where we are going to be outspent dramatically by our division mates. We need to take a dispassionate approach and all decisions should run through the prism of what gives the team the best chance of winning. Putting a winner on the field is what is best for the fans and best for the club while not necessarily being the best thing for the player. While it may be unpopular at the begining, many times the best deal for the franchise is the deal that isn't made.

That said, I think all that is moot anyway. With the market being what it is and what it is likely to be next year unless BRob adamently wants out 3/30 or less will likely eventually get it done.

[mweb]

I'm not interested in looking at Fangraphs. If you have actual reasoning explaining why they're "not even close", then tell me.

Roberts has been worth 9.8 wins over the past 2 years which according to Fangraphs, translates to $42.1 million on the open market. Hudson has been worth 5 wins, translating to $21.3 million.

[LookitsPuck]

According to Fangraphs, Mora's performance was worth more than what he was paid in each of those years so you can hardly call it stinking it up. In his entire career as an O he has been paid $28.2mm, but has been worth $78.8mm. In his past 3 seasons he was paid 19.9 mm but worth $26mm. Not as good as he used to be, but hardly stinking it up. If you wish to be convincing, try facts instead of hyperbole.

As if Fangraphs is the end all be all of accurate monetary projections.

Tell me, what was Mora worth in 2006 and 2007?

[cindyluvsbrady]

If these arguments were presented in an arbitration hearing, it's pretty clear BRob earned his money the previous 4 years, and SGuy makes a good point that from a purely business point of view, it would be silly for the O's to increase their offer.

I would like to expand on that, this is not a pure business move. This is Baltimore and we do like our heroes. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to sell tickets to thousands of "no-shows." They don't spend any additional money at the games. It's much better to put thousands of warm butts in cheaper seats who consume large amounts of beer, cokes, ballcaps, any make lots of noise and excitement. More importantly is the fact that this franchise has to maintain and increase it's fan base.

Brian Roberts is the face of the club, he represents all that was good and exciting about our storied past. In many way he's the last touchstone to that tradition. He's the hard-nose, give-it all you can blue collar guy we love.

Sometimes, it's smart to ignore what your "purely business" instincts say, and do what is best for the player, the fans, and the club.

Four years for forty million is what he wants, give it to him. He'll earn that extra ten million, and we show our fans and the rest of the baseball world that Baltimore rewards it's heroes and wants them to remain in town.

YUP:):clap3:

My Perfect One :hearts:needs to stay here!!!:wedge:

[Sports Guy]

Roberts has been worth 9.8 wins over the past 2 years which according to Fangraphs, translates to $42.1 million on the open market. Hudson has been worth 5 wins, translating to $21.3 million.

So, by this measure, BRob is twice as valuable as Hudson.

Hudson signs for 1/5 or something like that, I think the Orioles offering 2 more years and another 25 million is extremely fair.

[rlc]

It's much better to put thousands of warm butts in cheaper seats who consume large amounts of beer, cokes, ballcaps, any make lots of noise and excitement.

The image of thousands of warm butts consuming beer and ballcaps, then making noise and excitement will inspire me throughout these long contract negotiations.

No, wait, I misread that - you're saying it's the seats that consume the beer and make noise.

[El Gordo]

As if Fangraphs is the end all be all of accurate monetary projections.

Tell me, what was Mora worth in 2006 and 2007?

It may not be the end all and be all, but it sure beats mindless drival. Mora was woth $4.9mm in '06 and cost $4.3mm; $9 mm in '07 and cost $7.8mm. We'll see how he does this year after his shoulder surgery.

[24fps]

The image of thousands of warm butts consuming beer and ballcaps, then making noise and excitement will inspire me throughout these long contract negotiations.

No, wait, I misread that - you're saying it's the seats that consume the beer and make noise.

Given the two images I currently have in my mind, I'd much prefer the seats to be doing the consuming, noismaking etc., than the butts. Although to tell the truth I'd hate to have to explain either to my daughter.

[mweb]

So, by this measure, BRob is twice as valuable as Hudson.

Hudson signs for 1/5 or something like that, I think the Orioles offering 2 more years and another 25 million is extremely fair.

Would that method apply to Tex and Dunn as well?

And I'm not saying it's not fair, and maybe he will accept it, but I also don't see an issue of upping it to 3/31.5 with a 10.5 option with a 1.5 buyout.

[Ruzious]

Roberts has been worth 9.8 wins over the past 2 years which according to Fangraphs, translates to $42.1 million on the open market. Hudson has been worth 5 wins, translating to $21.3 million.

That tells me nothing. If you want to tell me why they came up with those numbers, that might be useful.

[Intimidator301]

Well, I'm not gonna sit here and argue stats, but the bottom line is Roberts is respected around the league as one of the top five second baseman in baseball, while Hudson is still unsigned and MAY end up with a one year deal somewhere.

So, I ask you, who is more valuable?

I guess you missed where I said myself that Roberts is the better player. I just don't think its by as much as people make it out to be. Hudson gives you as much offense, and is probably close defensively.

And I can't answer your question because we don't know if Roberts would be signed or not if he was on the FA market. But, there doesn't seem to be a team lining up to trade for Roberts. So, who knows.

Honestly, I don't see how Hudson being unsigned or maybe having to take a 1 year deal has any barring on his value compared to Roberts. By your reasoning then, Raul Ibanez (Who signed a multi year deal) is more valuable then Manny Ramirez or Bobby Abreu or even Adam Dunn because they are unsigned and possibly looking at 1 year deals?

And I can almost gaurantee that if Roberts was a FA, and demanding 4/40+ mil, he'd still be unsigned too. Most of the fans here would agree that's too much.

Right now, Hudson will only cost money. Roberts will cost you players AND money. Considering the numbers are close, I'd say right now there's more value in signing Hudson. That's my opinion. People can disagree and throw around fangraphs all they want. It doesn't change my mind. If it was the other way around, and Hudson was an Oriole and Roberts a FA, Fans would be saying the same thing I am.

And for what its worth, I'm in favor of a Roberts extension.

[Ruzious]

Fwiw, this is a comparison of Hudson and BRob - from fangraphs.com, and it shows them to be very similar. http://www.fangraphs.com/comparison.aspx?playerid=166&playerid2=1307&playerid3=&position=2B&page=0&type=full

[Tx Oriole]

Its about time somebody said this! No more trade talk. No more bickering over a few million either way. If Roberts wants to stay for 4 more years, then Pay the Man! The Fans (most of us, anyway...no disrespect SG) want it. His teammates want it. MacPhail and Trembley seem to want it. Cindy definitely wants it. So if BRob truly wants to extend here, its time to stop fiddle farting around, get it done, and PAY the MAN!

For that I agree with you. I jsut don't think 4 years with Roberts will in anyway hurt the O's. I don't believe it will keep the team from getting better.

[CalForPresident]

As much as I would love to get some really good talent for B Rob I do want to sign him even more. Like someone else said he has been the franchise player for years now and he is one of the only reasons why fans have still been coming for the last few years so give him what he deserves. Like the saying give credit where credit is do or something like that he deserves it. Its also not an outrageous amount for him either considering what he does on the field and off of it. The guy is one of the best leadoff hitters, best defenders and is a switch hitter who is consistent from both sides of the plate and he has been pretty consistent over the years and than his stolen base numbers he deserves it and he wants to play here. I can't picture him in a another uniform can you really.

[mweb]

That tells me nothing. If you want to tell me why they came up with those numbers, that might be useful.

You could have already found out for yourself. It comes from how many runs above replacement he has been offensively and defensively. You can find the details yourself if you care to.