Mike Minor & Jerry Sullivan - for Lier

[Obando]

Lier:

Considering you are very proficient in analyzing the mechanics of pitchers to determine if they will stay healthy long-term, I was wondering if you could give a brief analysis of Vanderbilt's Mike Minor & Oral Roberts' Jerry Sullivan.

I don't have any video footage or picture stills, but I'm sure they could be found on their college websites or elsewhere. I am intrigued by both of these guys and think they are among the top 5 college pitchers eligible to be drafted this year (along with Strasburg, Gibson, & A.J. Griffin). I happen to think guys like Alex White & Kendal Volz, despite great stuff and hype, are a little overrated).

Please let me know if you have the time and willingness to analyze these 2 pitchers. They seem to get less publicity than some of the more heralded guys (see above) but I think they are more likely to have success in the pros. Thanks!

[TJ Wrangler]

Lier:

Considering you are very proficient in analyzing the mechanics of pitchers to determine if they will stay healthy long-term, I was wondering if you could give a brief analysis of Vanderbilt's Mike Minor & Oral Roberts' Jerry Sullivan.

I don't have any video footage or picture stills, but I'm sure they could be found on their college websites or elsewhere. I am intrigued by both of these guys and think they are among the top 5 college pitchers eligible to be drafted this year (along with Strasburg, Gibson, & A.J. Griffin). I happen to think guys like Alex White & Kendal Volz, despite great stuff and hype, are a little overrated).

Please let me know if you have the time and willingness to analyze these 2 pitchers. They seem to get less publicity than some of the more heralded guys (see above) but I think they are more likely to have success in the pros. Thanks!

Sorry man, I just now noticed this thread. As you said, there isn't much out there for them.

M. Minor

Looks to me like his timing is good and he has decent hip/shoulder separation. He is showing the ball to 1b and doesn't appear to be in a position of hyperabduction.

It looks like he is also leading with his heel in his stride (striding sideways towards the target). I don't have enough to determine what kind of hand break he has, but at a glance, it doesn't seem that his timing is a problem.

I can't find anything good on Jerry Sullivan.

Sorry for the lack of detail, but if you come across more material, I'll take a look.

[crawdad]

Justin, I'd probably not even bother posting either of these guys until you grab some video. Stills are used to make points, not to analyze mechanics. Does that make sense? Stills can miss a lot of information and do an analysis based on them may hurt your credibility if readers do not understand how shaky still-based mechanic analysis is. It is like predicting a season's worth of stats having seen a guy play for a game or two. It is not very useful.

[Obando]

Lier, thanks for following up on this. I kind of forgot about it myself. I'll see if I can find any more photos for either of these guys. Sullivan is an under the radar guy who doesn't get much pub but is built well (6'4, 200) and put up solid numbers at Oral Roberts last year as a sophomore. Apparently he was one of the top prep pitchers in the country as a HS junior but had to have Tommy John surgery his senior year and fell off the radar.

He had some good write ups over the summer (I'm pretty sure he pitched on the Cape) following a strong sophomore year. If he stays healthy and pitches well this year, I'm sure you'll have more video & photo stills to analyze his mechanics than you do now.

As for Mike Minor, I really like what I read about him and he was voted the top pitcher in the Summer Leagues this past summer. I think he also pitched for Team USA and led them in wins (even more than Strasburg). I don't think he's a high velocity lefty, but he's crafty and throws hard enough to be considered a top 20 pick. I'll be tracking him closely throughout the college season.

[TJ Wrangler]

Justin, I'd probably not even bother posting either of these guys until you grab some video. Stills are used to make points, not to analyze mechanics. Does that make sense? Stills can miss a lot of information and do an analysis based on them may hurt your credibility if readers do not understand how shaky still-based mechanic analysis is. It is like predicting a season's worth of stats having seen a guy play for a game or two. It is not very useful.

I know that, but I was just trying to answer a guy's question with some sort of response. I just felt that I owed him that much after missing his question for a couple of weeks. Like I said in my post, I need more material than what I could find, but I did find enough to make a few brief points.

[crawdad]

I know that, but I was just trying to answer a guy's question with some sort of response. I just felt that I owed him that much after missing his question for a couple of weeks. Like I said in my post, I need more material than what I could find, but I did find enough to make a few brief points.

Yeah, I guess the way I would look at it would be if I had the information available . . . then give a good response. If not, then answer the guy, but indicate that you cannot give a good analysis without the required media or first hand sight to provide a proper analysis. It just seemed to me that when you responded to him, that your words were written with a bit more conviction than they should have been.

That said, I do enjoy your work. You are still learning (heck, we all are), but you are making good progress. You have an open mind and that is most important when providing qualitative analysis on something so difficult to assess. Biomechanics has a way to go.

[TJ Wrangler]

Yeah, I guess the way I would look at it would be if I had the information available . . . then give a good response. If not, then answer the guy, but indicate that you cannot give a good analysis without the required media or first hand sight to provide a proper analysis. It just seemed to me that when you responded to him, that your words were written with a bit more conviction than they should have been.

That said, I do enjoy your work. You are still learning (heck, we all are), but you are making good progress. You have an open mind and that is most important when providing qualitative analysis on something so difficult to assess. Biomechanics has a way to go.

I just wanted to give Obando some sort of indication that I acknowledged his question and provide him with a few things to look out for based off of what I did see. I didn't mean for that post to be a say all, end all in any way.

Either way, thanks for the compliments.

[crawdad]

I just wanted to give Obando some sort of indication that I acknowledged his question and provide him with a few things to look out for based off of what I did see. I didn't mean for that post to be a say all, end all in any way.

Either way, thanks for the compliments.

Eh, find video of him. I think you are going to find something.

[TJ Wrangler]

Eh, find video of him. I think you are going to find something.

I'm guessing someone has already found something to look out for...

[crawdad]

I'm guessing someone has already found something to look out for...

Arm action looks like a potential issue, but I would have to have a video to be declarative about anything. Added to that . . . kinks and mechanical issues are often things to be concerned about, but they are also not the end all. The amount we do not know about biomechanics overwhelms our understanding of it. Sure, we are better now than we were 3, 5, 10, or 20 years ago . . . but we are still not great at it.

Heck we really haven't figured out how use relates to injury or fatigue, except in a positive direction.

[mark_beckens]

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[TJ Wrangler]

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Just by looking at this and hitting pause at the right time, I noticed his timing seems to be an issue.

[Obando]

Going off of that video he looks to have a Jim Johnson-type delivery. Similar build as well. Do you see that as well, Lier? I can't analyze mechanics like you can, so I don't know if they are good or bad, but he definitely has a good pitcher's build. My knowledge of him was strictly from reading and looking at stats, so I've never actually seen him in action.

Based on this video, what do you see from him?

[TJ Wrangler]

Going off of that video he looks to have a Jim Johnson-type delivery. Similar build as well. Do you see that as well, Lier? I can't analyze mechanics like you can, so I don't know if they are good or bad, but he definitely has a good pitcher's build. My knowledge of him was strictly from reading and looking at stats, so I've never actually seen him in action.

Based on this video, what do you see from him?

It's tough to say because this is a warm up video and many things could be factored into how he's pitching. Without thousand dollar editing software to break down and zoom in on this, all I can say is that he could have timing issues.

It is hard to make the comparison to Johnson because the video isn't the best for analysis.

[crawdad]

Just by looking at this and hitting pause at the right time, I noticed his timing seems to be an issue.

Just that aspect of his delivery . . . his timing is not off by much if at all. Of course, with video this bad it is hard to evaluate his warm ups. Shoulders fall in with hips and the forearm comes out at about the right time. In an actual game, he might rush it and a timing issue may occur . . . but I have a hard time seeing it in this clip.

I heard you are part of the OH publishing contributors. I think a good exercise to publish would be to put together a manual on how you break apart a pitcher's motion and what you look for because it seems a lot of comments made by posters shows that they do not understand how you come to your assessment. The lingo and the meaning probably need some spelling out. Include examples and what not. That would be a great primer and hopefully encourage many OH members to participate in these discussions.

It will cut down the negative bashing and the wistful exuberance, leaving useful analysis and discourse.