Trevor Bauer

[Pickles]

4 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

We have no idea what MLB acted on. There are several other accusations and what evidence they acted on has not been made public. 

That woman lied.  Clearly.

Convicted by her own video.

Again, why does he need to prove he is innocent? 

Especially when his own accusers are clearly lying?  

[OriolesMagic83]

42 minutes ago, Pickles said:

PS

What part of innocent until proven guilty is difficult?

You know, that's a thing for a reason.

You obviously have never spent much time in the state of Virginia.  I can assure you things run a little different here.

[ledzepp8]

6 hours ago, Pickles said:

Well, again: Why does he have to prove his innocence?

They clearly robbed him of a lot of money.

Why shouldn't they have to prove he was guilty to justify it?

Exactly. You're presumed innocent. The onus isn't on Bauer to prove his innocence. It's on MLB or the justice system to prove his guilt.

[tntoriole]

This is why I don’t want the Os to sign him. 

[SilentJames]

37 minutes ago, ledzepp8 said:

Exactly. You're presumed innocent. The onus isn't on Bauer to prove his innocence. It's on MLB or the justice system to prove his guilt.

And the MLB's own investigation came to the conclusion that the suspension was warranted, but should come to an end. And again, a settlement of lawsuits does not mean acquittal. 

This is always the problem with sexual assault cases, at the end of the day there are only two people involved and both can have legitimately competing interpretations of events (that is to say both sides genuinely and in good faith believe they are telling the truth). However, while this case is resolved there are numerous others that have been uncovered that either never went beyond restraining orders or are still currently being litigated. That shows a pattern of Mr. Bauer being, at the very least, remarkably irresponsible when considering his interactions with others. 

The question was not whether or not he should be in jail, the question was whether or not the Orioles should entertain the idea of signing him. I believe they should stay away because the guy has a track record of not only sexual malfeasance, but also he was a complete headcase before that. He likely was altering the baseball in some clandestine way while in Cincy to obtain otherwordly spin numbers that suddenly dropped back to normal as he went to LA and the MLB cracked down on it. 

I understand that some here are taking this opportunity to stand up for a man they believe has been wronged by "the mob," I would remind you that he doesnt deny he beat her, just that he didnt break her skull. 

So go off I guess. 

[Frobby]

9 hours ago, Pickles said:

Well, again: Why does he have to prove his innocence?

They clearly robbed him of a lot of money.

Why shouldn't they have to prove he was guilty to justify it?

We don’t really know anything about the basis for the decisions of MLB or the arbitrator.  But I’m sure MLB would have had the burden of proof to show that Bauer violated the league’s conduct policy.  I think a couple of points are worth making.  

1.  A criminal case requires proof of a criminal act beyond a reasonable doubt.  A suspension requires a violation of the league’s conduct policy, but not necessarily a criminal act, and I’m sure the standard of proof is something less than “beyond a reasonable doubt.”

2.  The conduct on which the suspension was based may not have related solely or even principally to this specific incident.  There were some other women accusing Bauer, as I recall.  

I haven’t studied MLB’s domestic violence policy or whether the CBA has processes for appealing an unfavorable arbitration decision.  I do know that generally, the window to seek court review of an arbitration decision is quite short (90 days).   So far as I know, Bauer did not challenge the arbitration decision in court.  So, I doubt he has any further recourse now.   

 

[ThisIsBirdland]

Can't believe this thread isn't locked, but since it's not:

I dragged Bauer when he was discussed on here six months ago. As many have stated, even if the SD incident was a setup, the other accusations and overall locker room behavior, plus the lack of support from prior teammates, were all red flags.

Still, I believed the SD incident was probably non-consensual and he's presented compelling evidence that it was instead a cash grab. I don't think we can verify the dates/time/context of the texts and videos he's showing, but assuming he's not blatantly lying right now, it is a good reminder to let the process fully play out. Unfortunately it's human nature to want to see your instincts confirmed (he's an abusive POS/the "media" is out to get all men), I'm as guilty of that as anyone. 

"Innocent until proven guilty" is not a standard fans, organizations, or even the media are obligated to follow. People form judgements based on incomplete information all the time. Guilty people are often not proven guilty in a court of law; that doesn't mean I have to allow them into my or my family's life if I don't think they're safe. The MLB and respective teams can make the same call. Also, many of the people demanding "innocent until proven guilty" in this thread are expressing significant judgements on reporters, organizations, players, political/social/religious groups, all with very limited information themselves. 

[baltfan]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

We don’t really know anything about the basis for the decisions of MLB or the arbitrator.  But I’m sure MLB would have had the burden of proof to show that Bauer violated the league’s conduct policy.  I think a couple of points are worth making.  

1.  A criminal case requires proof of a criminal act beyond a reasonable doubt.  A suspension requires a violation of the league’s conduct policy, but not necessarily a criminal act, and I’m sure the standard of proof is something less than “beyond a reasonable doubt.”

2.  The conduct on which the suspension was based may not have related solely or even principally to this specific incident.  There were some other women accusing Bauer, as I recall.  

I haven’t studied MLB’s domestic violence policy or whether the CBA has processes for appealing an unfavorable arbitration decision.  I do know that generally, the window to seek court review of an arbitration decision is quite short (90 days).   So far as I know, Bauer did not challenge the arbitration decision in court.  So, I doubt he has any further recourse now.   

 

All of this, plus everyone claims this video completely exonerates Bauer.  The video that he shows would seem to exonerate him if it really is right after supposedly the violence occurred. But it isn't like she didn't have pictures of the supposed damage that he had done.  They can be found here.  Photos, new text messages revealed in Trevor Bauer assault accusations (nypost.com)  So, there seems to be a contradiction.  I guess it's possible she did it to herself or had someone else do it to her but it seems odd that she would do so and then not delete the video from her phone.  Now perhaps, she deleted it but it was recovered.  Anyhow, we are depending upon the accuracy of Bauer to describe when the video was from.  

I will also reiterate, I don't know why Bauer was willing to settle.  He is trying to clear his name.  He has a civil suit against her.  He says the evidence is overwhelming in his favor.  Why not file a motion for summary judgment and see if you prevail if the evidence is so overwhelming?  Ok, maybe he thinks there will still be a material factual dispute, if you are so convinced that it's obvious that she made this up why not have the trial?  Really go and clear your name.  Have a jury decide that she had lied.  

Ok, well maybe he doesn't want to pay the money to go to trial.  Then if you have the goods on her as part of the settlement insist that she apologize for slandering him.  Or maybe insist on some sort of small monetary payment to acknowledge her claims were false.  He got none of that.  He supposedly has overwhelming evidence but all he got was her dropping her case and in exchange he drops his.  He had all of the leverage here and seems to have gotten basically nothing given that his claims that her claims were provably specious.  Maybe he just has bad lawyers, but if you have someone as much over a barrel as this video would indicate, it sure doesn't make much sense to me to drop your meritorious claim in exchange for her dropping her unmeritorious claim.  Doesn't seem like he got much.

I am not saying there isn't a ton of shadiness here.  There appears to be.  But Bauer himself is a bit manipulative and shady as well.  I would be careful believing that everything is exactly as he lays it out in the video.  Many on here seem to be treating the video he made as the gospel.  

[baltfan]

One more thing.  In the video Bauer says he never committed any act of violence towards this woman or anyone else.  If that is true, he should have been flummoxed when he was accused by her of bruising her.  Instead, he says he "feels bad that it happened."  There seems to be more to all of this than what we are seeing.

  

 

[Aristotelian]

26 minutes ago, Frobby said:

We don’t really know anything about the basis for the decisions of MLB or the arbitrator.  But I’m sure MLB would have had the burden of proof to show that Bauer violated the league’s conduct policy.  I think a couple of points are worth making.  

1.  A criminal case requires proof of a criminal act beyond a reasonable doubt.  A suspension requires a violation of the league’s conduct policy, but not necessarily a criminal act, and I’m sure the standard of proof is something less than “beyond a reasonable doubt.”

2.  The conduct on which the suspension was based may not have related solely or even principally to this specific incident.  There were some other women accusing Bauer, as I recall.  

I haven’t studied MLB’s domestic violence policy or whether the CBA has processes for appealing an unfavorable arbitration decision.  I do know that generally, the window to seek court review of an arbitration decision is quite short (90 days).   So far as I know, Bauer did not challenge the arbitration decision in court.  So, I doubt he has any further recourse now.   

 

The term used in the MLB policy is "just cause". It does say burden of proof is on MLB, except it goes back to the player in the event they already have a criminal conviction: https://content.mlb.com/documents/2/9/2/296982292/Major_League_Player_Joint_DV_SA_CA_Policy_English_2018.pdf

Burden of Proof. In any case involving discipline imposed under this Policy, the Commissioner’s Office shall have the burden of proving that the Player committed a Covered Act:

a. A criminal conviction for an offense involving a Covered Act or a plea of guilty, no contest or nolo contendere, to an offense involving a Covered Act, whether a misdemeanor or felony, shall satisfy the Commissioner’s Office’s burden of proving a violation. In cases involving a criminal conviction or a plea of guilty, no contest or nolo contendere, the burden shall be on the Player to establish that notwithstanding the conviction or plea, the Player did not engage in a Covered Act.

b. A Player may be subjected to disciplinary action for just cause by the Commissioner for a violation of this Policy in the absence of a conviction or a plea of guilty to a crime involving a Covered Act.

Apparently just comes out of labor and employment law. Basically, it appears analogous to the process when an employer fires a union employee and is handled through a similar arbitration process. I'm not clear from the wikipedia page how it compares to "beyond a reasonable doubt" but I assume it is somewhat lesser than that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_cause_(employment_law)

[foxfield]

20 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

And yet millions watch the NFL each weekend despite cheering on players with legal battles.

People line up for concerts to watch artists that have checkered pasts.

There's a point where the talent or the performance surpasses whatever issues the talent or the performer has in their closet.  Like, I'm 100% positive that if Michael Jackson were still alive that there's no way I'd let my kid spend the night at his house.  But that doesn't mean I'm not putting Thriller on the record player every so often.

Hey Dad?  What’s a record player?

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, foxfield said:

Hey Dad?  What’s a record player?

You know those vinyl records you have on the wall for decoration?

Well....

[bigdan]

25 minutes ago, baltfan said:

One more thing.  In the video Bauer says he never committed any act of violence towards this woman or anyone else.  If that is true, he should have been flummoxed when he was accused by her of bruising her.  Instead, he says he "feels bad that it happened."  There seems to be more to all of this than what we are seeing.

  

Nowhere in this exchange does she accuse him of anything. 

 

[baltfan]

Just now, bigdan said:

 

So, we are supposed to believe he thought they happened because she fell down the stairs or something?  The odds seem strong that he knew she was saying he did the damage.  That doesn't mean it wasn't consensual or that his messages show that he felt guilty versus just wanting her to heal up.  As a matter of fact, based on everything, I would assume it likely was consensual and he very well had no intention to do that sort of damage.  However, I don't know how even if consensual this can be described as never having committed an act of violence against her.  

[Moose Milligan]

20 minutes ago, foxfield said:

Hey Dad?  What’s a record player?

The best sound you can get.