Cease vs everyone else

[owknows]

58 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

Like you have consistently done with the fact that Gibson was a firmly below average Major League pitcher last year?

 

You obviously aren't interested in discussion, so I'll leave the conversation here

[Oriole1940]

1 hour ago, owknows said:

I wouldn't bet the farm on it... but I think he's gonna surprise some people this year with innings alone.

It would be a very pleasant surprise.  If that happens the Orioles should have a wonderful year.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

2 minutes ago, owknows said:

You obviously aren't interested in discussion, so I'll leave the conversation here

>STILL won't acknowledge the objective, verifiable fact that Gibson was a below average Major League pitcher in 2023 

>accuses others of not being interested in discussion

lol

lmao even

 

[Malike]

2 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

>STILL won't acknowledge the objective, verifiable fact that Gibson was a below average Major League pitcher in 2023 

>accuses others of not being interested in discussion

lol

lmao even

 

Just curious, if 2.6 fWAR is below average, what is the average fWAR for a pitcher? I always thought the bar for an average pitcher was 2.0 fWAR. I'm not saying that Gibson was great for us, but you keep saying below average and I'm curious where you get that from.

[dystopia]

While I don’t really consider Gibson to have been slow average last year, I don’t think his ludicrous fWAR proves anything other than fWAR is a poor star for pitching. I spent most of the season making fun of his fWAR while he was giving up 4 or 5 runs a start. 

[DrinkinWithFermi]

6 minutes ago, Malike said:

Just curious, if 2.6 fWAR is below average, what is the average fWAR for a pitcher? I always thought the bar for an average pitcher was 2.0 fWAR. I'm not saying that Gibson was great for us, but you keep saying below average and I'm curious where you get that from.

87 ERA+

(Cease posted a 97 ERA+ in 2023 FWIW)

[owknows]

7 minutes ago, Malike said:

Just curious, if 2.6 fWAR is below average, what is the average fWAR for a pitcher? I always thought the bar for an average pitcher was 2.0 fWAR. I'm not saying that Gibson was great for us, but you keep saying below average and I'm curious where you get that from.

https://library.fangraphs.com/misc/war/

Fangraphs breaks their WAR metric down as follows:

 

Scrub	0-1 WAR
Role Player	1-2 WAR
Solid Starter	2-3 WAR
Good Player	3-4 WAR
All-Star	4-5 WAR
Superstar	5-6 WAR
MVP	6+ WAR

[Three Run Homer]

7 hours ago, owknows said:

 

I'm generally pleased with the progress the front office has made. And as much as I'm sure they are all deeply concerned about what you are and are not willing to "give them a pass on"... I think they will somehow manage to carry on, and do what they think best for the club in spite of your righteous indignation.

They may choose to spend money on a starter if they think it's a good fit. Or they may choose to trade for one. But whatever they do, I am coming to believe that it will be done based on careful consideration and a genuine strategic interest in the health and performance of the team. Your outrage notwithstanding.

At least now we know the identity of John Angelos' sock puppet on OH.  

[owknows]

Just now, Three Run Homer said:

At least now we know the identity of John Angelos' sock puppet on OH.  

The quality of discussion has dropped a notch or two here it seems.

[Moose Milligan]

4 minutes ago, owknows said:

https://library.fangraphs.com/misc/war/

Fangraphs breaks their WAR metric down as follows:

 

Scrub	0-1 WAR
Role Player	1-2 WAR
Solid Starter	2-3 WAR
Good Player	3-4 WAR
All-Star	4-5 WAR
Superstar	5-6 WAR
MVP	6+ WAR

He pointed to ERA+ which, according to some, is a better indicator of performance. 

[Malike]

Just now, Moose Milligan said:

He pointed to ERA+ which, according to some, is a better indicator of performance. 

Let's be honest. Any stat or site that supports one's argument is the best indicator of performance, lol.

[Moose Milligan]

10 minutes ago, Malike said:

Let's be honest. Any stat or site that supports one's argument is the best indicator of performance, lol.

Nah I think ERA+ tells it like it is. 

[DrinkinWithFermi]

8 minutes ago, Malike said:

Let's be honest. Any stat or site that supports one's argument is the best indicator of performance, lol.

fWAR probably isn't the best choice for assessing a pitcher. IIRC, it also said that Lyles was worth well over 2 WAR in 2022. 

That said, reliable mediocrity like we got from Lyles and Gibson does have value. Sometimes the best ability is availability, or so the saying goes.

[Roll Tide]

2 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

While I don't think wins tell the entire story of a starting pitcher's worth, I don't believe he stat is worthless. The fact that Gibson pitched well enough to earn 15 wins, more than any other Orioles starter, tells us that he was able to pitch fairly consistently on a good team.

Now I agree with you that he was below average overall despite the win totals, but the Orioles did go 20-13 in his starts which is not bad for a guy who should have been a 5th starter on a good team.

 

******Pauses and waits for insult to Tony by @wildbillhiccup about number of posts and to tell you that you ought to know better than putting any value in win totals by a starting pitcher 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, DrinkinWithFermi said:

fWAR probably isn't the best choice for assessing a pitcher. IIRC, it also said that Lyles was worth well over 2 WAR in 2022. 

That said, reliable mediocrity like we got from Lyles and Gibson does have value. Sometimes the best ability is availability, or so the saying goes.

It's a counting stat so they get credit for throwing more innings.