Cease vs everyone else

[Number5]

7 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Getz should trade Cease and Robert and anyone else that can bring back a decent prospect or two.  This one foot in/one foot out crap isn't going to get him anywhere other than a couple seasons of 72-78 wins.

The only thing that I keep coming back to as to why he'd hold onto Cease and Robert is their sad sack division they play in.  Simply put, they don't need as much talent to compete in that division as they would somewhere else.  The balanced schedule nullifies that a little bit but it's still a really weak division to play in.

Yeah, 78 wins just might win that division and ridiculously give them the home field advantage in the first round over a much better team.

[interloper]

Snell needs to hurry up and sign. 

[Sports Guy]

13 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Getz should trade Cease and Robert and anyone else that can bring back a decent prospect or two.  This one foot in/one foot out crap isn't going to get him anywhere other than a couple seasons of 72-78 wins.

The only thing that I keep coming back to as to why he'd hold onto Cease and Robert is their sad sack division they play in.  Simply put, they don't need as much talent to compete in that division as they would somewhere else.  The balanced schedule nullifies that a little bit but it's still a really weak division to play in.

Definitely a case to be made for them to actually go for it. They have some decent prospects right now and will have this upcoming draft to help out further. 
 

So much of what the org needs to improve on can be done whether you win 50 games or 100 games.

[cridolphi]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

The WS fans want high upside guys. I get it, I would too if I were them.

 

Just for fun, I went back to the Bedard trade.  Bedard had 4 full seasons before we traded him (at least 24 starts) with an average ERA+ of 118 (it's not weighted properly but trying to make simple).  Cease in his 3 full seasons for WS has an average ERA+ of 129.  Bedard was a year older at the time of trade, but also had either one or two more years of control left.  It's an interesting comparison.

Edited January 17 by cridolphi

[Tony-OH]

50 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Good point and I think the age of the prospects (compared to ours) might also be big selling point for the White Sox.  All but one of the Yankees top six prospects are 22 or younger. If I'm looking to rebuild my team and didn't intend on competing for a few years that would heavily factor in if I was trading a player to try and restock my farm system. We keep pushing/suggesting guys like Westberg (24), Cowser (23)and Kjerstad (24), adn Ortiz (25 in this thread, but the reality is they're really probably not the best fit for a team that doesn't intend to contend for a few years.  And unfortunately the younger players who we do have (Holliday, Basillo, and Mayo) are too high end to include in a trade for a two year rental. 

This is a good point. I wonder is they would be more interested in a guy like Horvath or a Braylin Tavera/Tomas Sosa type vs a major league ready prospect.

[interloper]

22 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

This is a good point. I wonder is they would be more interested in a guy like Horvath or a Braylin Tavera/Tomas Sosa type vs a major league ready prospect.

Are we sure that the Sox are going for a full rebuild though? I could see them trying to get ML-ready guys in their mid-20s to take a shot at the division, if they're delusional enough, which most teams are these days with the expanded playoffs, and considering the weak division. 

But I'm not sure which they're going for. 

Edited January 17 by interloper

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Good point and I think the age of the prospects (compared to ours) might also be big selling point for the White Sox.  All but one of the Yankees top six prospects are 22 or younger. If I'm looking to rebuild my team and didn't intend on competing for a few years that would heavily factor in if I was trading a player to try and restock my farm system. We keep pushing/suggesting guys like Westberg (24), Cowser (23)and Kjerstad (24), adn Ortiz (25 in this thread, but the reality is they're really probably not the best fit for a team that doesn't intend to contend for a few years.  And unfortunately the younger players who we do have (Holliday, Basillo, and Mayo) are too high end to include in a trade for a two year rental. 

I’m having this discussion with them and it’s an interesting topic imo.

On one hand, there is a feeling of “we have to hit on this trade”. There are only so many pieces to deal and he can bring back a higher end talent. Of course, the flip side to that is the higher end talent is typically much more volatile as they are younger and less experienced. 
 

So, do you go with the high risk high reward guys or do you go with the more of a sure thing but perhaps lower ceiling talent?

[24fps]

46 minutes ago, interloper said:

Are we sure that the Sox are going for a full rebuild though? I could see them trying to get ML-ready guys in their mid-20s to take a shot at the division, if they're delusional enough, which most teams are these days with the expanded playoffs, and considering the weak division. 

But I'm not sure which they're going for. 

If Moncada and Jimenez have good first halves, that will be a big temptation to dump them at the deadline.  That would tell me the WS are leaning toward a full rebuild.

[Rustbelt]

7 minutes ago, 24fps said:

If Moncada and Jimenez have good first halves, that will be a big temptation to dump them at the deadline.  That would tell me the WS are leaning toward a full rebuild.

Interestingly, the White Sox fans know they are in a full rebuild.  I am not sure if Jerry Reinsdorf does. 

[ChicagoTerp]

2 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Getz should trade Cease and Robert and anyone else that can bring back a decent prospect or two.  This one foot in/one foot out crap isn't going to get him anywhere other than a couple seasons of 72-78 wins.

The only thing that I keep coming back to as to why he'd hold onto Cease and Robert is their sad sack division they play in.  Simply put, they don't need as much talent to compete in that division as they would somewhere else.  The balanced schedule nullifies that a little bit but it's still a really weak division to play in.

Couldn't agree more.

Perversely, Cease and Robert have negative value on that team. Just enough to help them win 70-80 games, and either miss the playoffs altogether, or maybe sneak in, only to be steamrolled in the first round (*not that there's anything wrong with that!* ), and miss out on a top draft pick. 

[joelala]

1 hour ago, interloper said:

Are we sure that the Sox are going for a full rebuild though? I could see them trying to get ML-ready guys in their mid-20s to take a shot at the division, if they're delusional enough, which most teams are these days with the expanded playoffs, and considering the weak division. 

But I'm not sure which they're going for. 

They should keep Cease if that’s the case. 

[Roll Tide]

6 hours ago, terpoh said:

Are those free agents better options solely based on not having to give up players in a trade? I dont see how any of those are better options otherwise, and even with giving up premium talent I'm not sure I see it.

Yes …. Not giving up talent 
 

So …since we can’t discuss ERA without hearing tears.

FIP Cease          Career 3.76     2024   3.72
       Clevinger    Career 3.87      2024  4.28 
        Wood.          Career 3.61      2024   4.47
        Lorenzen    Career 4.32    2024     4.46

Im no longer interested in Lorenzen. @Sports Guy most trolling gave you an up vote. But, career Clevinger is acutely pretty comparable but had a year that was over that number. And he’s not a walk magnet at 2.8/9 the last 2 years. I’d argue Clevinger on a 1 or 2 year deal is far superior to Cease when you count the “premium “ trade cost. There is no way .11 in FIP is worth a couple top 100 prospects and 2 other 10-15 prospects in our organization. Wood’s career FIP is better than Cease’s but his 2024 was rough .75 worse. Those hoping for CY YOUNG Cease ….IMO it’s more likely that Wood gets close to his career FIP than Cease have another excellent year. 
 

Id make cases for the other trade options but I don’t think you are asking for.

@Sports Guyim sure you’ll come up with some nonsensical bull shite why this info isn’t valid. So let’s have it!

[Just Regular]

It would be off brand for Elias, but isn't the one of our three top 35-ish picks that is a Comp pick tradable?      Maybe that's neutral territory if Getz isn't valuing Ortiz or Beavers or whoever the 2nd/3rd piece is in a manner Elias feels is appropriate?

[OriolesMagic83]

3 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Your Trolling needs to end. I’m happy married and never have spent 1 second thinking about a dude.

 

I’d quit bringing you up if you didn’t have some snarky comment, rep another’s response to mine, the laughing rep , or being an insufferable know it all that’s impossible to have a logical conversation with because you are never wrong. Even when you are ….. 

Get a room

[Roll Tide]

52 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

It would be off brand for Elias, but isn't the one of our three top 35-ish picks that is a Comp pick tradable?      Maybe that's neutral territory if Getz isn't valuing Ortiz or Beavers or whoever the 2nd/3rd piece is in a manner Elias feels is appropriate?

So he’s rumored to want 2 top 100 and 2 good prospects for Cease. I don’t buy that Elias would be willing to trade the pick. What does it replace? You’re still giving 2 Top 100s … Cowser and Ortiz and one of Mcdermott or Povich plus that pick. Would you do that?