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Cease vs everyone else


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If the White Sox need pitching back, the O's were never a serious match anyway.  Do I believe the Mariners are now in the hunt for Cease?  Yes, that would be a very good rotation, but I don't believe the talks are very far along and who else besides Miller or Woo would have to be added?

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2 hours ago, SoxFan3344 said:

Bob Nightengale this morning:

It’s hard to believe the Baltimore Orioles, after winning 101 games last year, won’t do anything more this winter than sign veteran closer Craig Kimbrel to a one-year, $13 million contract to replace injured Felix Bautista. 

They need another frontline starter, but talks with the White Sox for Dylan Cease have stopped. 

They currently have just a $73 million payroll.

I think the O's payroll will be closer to $83 million once arb raises are sorted out.

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5 minutes ago, 24fps said:

I think the O's payroll will be closer to $83 million once arb raises are sorted out.

I honestly thought they would be closer to 100 million this year not that payroll means success and they had to go out and spend lots on multi year deal.  There still time to get it closer to that by end of year just thought with increase in tickets and last year success there should be but more money available.  If we stay under 90 million it will signify that the talk there is more if needed available as has been said will be very hard to push next off season to me.  

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14 minutes ago, 24fps said:

If the White Sox need pitching back, the O's were never a serious match anyway.  Do I believe the Mariners are now in the hunt for Cease?  Yes, that would be a very good rotation, but I don't believe the talks are very far along and who else besides Miller or Woo would have to be added?

It sounds like Getz would prefer pitching back but since the O’s don’t have a pitcher they’d be willing to offer like a Woo or Miller the Sox are probably asking for two of Cowser, Kjerstad, Westburg or one of Mayo, Basallo+ to make up for the lack of pitching in return.

** THIS IS NOT ME SAYING THE O’S SHOULD MAKE THIS TRADE **

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6 minutes ago, bpilktree said:

I honestly thought they would be closer to 100 million this year not that payroll means success and they had to go out and spend lots on multi year deal.  There still time to get it closer to that by end of year just thought with increase in tickets and last year success there should be but more money available.  If we stay under 90 million it will signify that the talk there is more if needed available as has been said will be very hard to push next off season to me.  

I started the offseason thinking the payroll would go to roughly $85 million.  I've since revised my expectation to at least $100 million by the end of the year, which sounds about right because even a tier 3 starter would get it close to that before Opening Day.  I'm not holding my breath about any extensions.

I've said all along that since last year's success there is no place for JA to hide on the payroll question and there isn't.  MLB rights fees, MASN rights fees, increased attendance and a host of other revenue streams means that a $100 million MLB payroll for the O's is sustainable at a minimum.

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2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Nightengale saying it’s the Mariners, who are now offering one of Woo or Miller, or Cease is a WS on OD.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2024/01/27/shohei-ohtani-dodgers-stan-kasten-pwhl-hockey/72384625007/

The White Sox are asking, not that the Mariners are offering: "The Seattle Mariners have quietly entered trade talks with the Chicago White Sox for ace Dylan Cease, with the White Sox seeking a package centered around young starter Bryce Miller or Bryan Woo. "

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2024/01/27/shohei-ohtani-dodgers-stan-kasten-pwhl-hockey/72384625007/

Dylan Cease would provide the shortest team control in the Seattle rotation (just half that of Luis Castillo and Logan Gilbert).

Seattle has a combined 25 years of team control over its current starting rotation of Luis Castillo, George Kirby, Logan Gilbert, Bryce Miller and Bryan Woo at an estimated aggregate salary* of $186.7 million, or an average annual salary less than $7.5 million per starter. Attrition always looms but in today's pitching market, the Mariners are in an envious position.

Blake Snell may be asking for more money than the Mariners are estimated to owe their entire starting rotation over 25 years of team control.

* working off estimates at Baseball Trade Values

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The White Sox remind me of the guy in my fantasy league that is always listing his best players as "on the block," yet never makes any trades because he always wants far, far more value in return.  That's all well and good, but it isn't really what "on the block" means.  I told that guy years ago that if he ever is interested in talking trade with me to send me an offer, and I'll reply, but don't expect me to waste my time trying to figure out a reasonable offer.  My guess is that Elias and other GMs have pretty much relayed that message to Getz.  Most players in baseball that don't have a NTC can be had in trade if a ridiculous overpay is offered.  Lets not pretend that that means they are all "on the block."  It seems to me that CWS have wasted everyone's time.  JMO.

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33 minutes ago, SoxFan3344 said:

It sounds like Getz would prefer pitching back but since the O’s don’t have a pitcher they’d be willing to offer like a Woo or Miller the Sox are probably asking for two of Cowser, Kjerstad, Westburg or one of Mayo, Basallo+ to make up for the lack of pitching in return.

** THIS IS NOT ME SAYING THE O’S SHOULD MAKE THIS TRADE **

As you've probably realized by now, most posters here would accept one of Cowser/Kjerstad/Westburg as a headliner along with additional lesser pieces.  You won't get much support, however,  if one of Holliday, Mayo or Basallo has to be included.  I think that position is pretty well fixed at this point.  I'm also beginning to get the sense that the two teams need to close the Cease deal soon if it's going to happen at all.  If Elias has budget space for a FA pitcher - and I think he does although not in the Snell/Montgomery range - then I don't see him waiting around forever.

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13 minutes ago, 24fps said:

As you've probably realized by now, most posters here would accept one of Cowser/Kjerstad/Westburg as a headliner along with additional lesser pieces.  You won't get much support, however,  if one of Holliday, Mayo or Basallo has to be included.  I think that position is pretty well fixed at this point.  I'm also beginning to get the sense that the two teams need to close the Cease deal soon if it's going to happen at all.  If Elias has budget space for a FA pitcher - and I think he does although not in the Snell/Montgomery range - then I don't see him waiting around forever.

I don’t think it’s gonna get done. If Getz is needing Mayo for it to go down and if Mike Elias is as defiant as you guys are that he’s not available and if Elias isn’t willing to trade both Kjerstad/Cowser + Westburg then I don’t see Getz gonna giving in based on the reports of him being very transparent to other GMs of what he needs in return. 

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13 minutes ago, SoxFan3344 said:

I don’t think it’s gonna get done. If Getz is needing Mayo for it to go down and if Mike Elias is as defiant as you guys are that he’s not available and if Elias isn’t willing to trade both Kjerstad/Cowser + Westburg then I don’t see Getz gonna giving in based on the reports of him being very transparent to other GMs of what he needs in return. 

I'm beginning to think it won't get done with the O's either, but I can say unequivocally that Getz is a fool if he doesn't trade Cease to somebody before the beginning of spring training.  Given how few trade chips the White Sox have at the moment, if nothing else Getz needs to offload the injury risk elsewhere.  And right now, some team will definitely give fair value plus a small premium.

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I just don’t see where trading for Cease makes sense for Mariners.  There starting pitching isn’t the problem they have 5 solid starters already.   There weakness is hitting if you want to use Miller and Woo in a trade I would think you want to use your strength to trade for a weakness.  I don’t see a huge benefit for trading Cease for Miller or Woo this season let alone then length of control they will have on those two.  

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20 minutes ago, SoxFan3344 said:

I don’t think it’s gonna get done. If Getz is needing Mayo for it to go down and if Mike Elias is as defiant as you guys are that he’s not available and if Elias isn’t willing to trade both Kjerstad/Cowser + Westburg then I don’t see Getz gonna giving in based on the reports of him being very transparent to other GMs of what he needs in return. 

I don't either.  WS needs young, high talent and our young, high talent is off limits, or at least off limits for Cease.  No Holiday, Mayo or Basallo.  Our other highly ranked talent is largely MLB ready, which is a bit too soon for the WS.  I think the WS are asking for more than the O's are willing to part with (rightfully so by the Os IMO).  If that means we miss out on Cease, I'm ok with that.  I want him, but he isn't so good that I'm willing to overpay for him.  I'd trade ONE of Westburg/Ortiz/Kjerstad/Cowswer for him along with some other pieces (Norby, Beavers, etc).  But only ONE of them, not two.  I don't think the WS bite on that, right or wrong.  

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34 minutes ago, 24fps said:

I'm beginning to think it won't get done with the O's either, but I can say unequivocally that Getz is a fool if he doesn't trade Cease to somebody before the beginning of spring training.  Given how few trade chips the White Sox have at the moment, if nothing else Getz needs to offload the injury risk elsewhere.  And right now, some team will definitely give fair value plus a small premium.

It all depends on the offers Getz is getting. If Joey Ortiz is the headlining piece then yeah if I’m Getz I’m turning it down too. I’m sure he has a minimum price in mind that he’d accept right now that isn’t actually the “sun and the moon” 

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