Infield Alignment

[spleen1015]

3 minutes ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

This is why I think we keep Urias, and Mateo to an extent. If someone is a slump, we could see the others getting more playing time. If Holiday is not up, we are lacking left handed hitting on the IF

If someone has a slump, I hope Hyde doesn't think Mateo is the answer.

[Otter]

40 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I believe they will settle in, at some point, with Westburg at second, Holliday at SS and Gunnar at third. I don’t know if that is this year, next year or the year after but eventually, I feel that’s where it ends up.

Mayo does come into play here as well but if he looks good enough in RF and first base, I think that’s what they do with him.

The one thing I do hope they eventually do is stop moving every one around and let these guys settle in at one spot. That’s not to say in freak occurrences you don’t move them if needs be but overall, this is your everyday spot. I feel like these guys will get into a better rhythm at the position when that happens.

Agreed.  I think versatility can be good when it's needed, but for the elite prospects I like having them find one main position and play it 95% of the time so they can perfect it.  For a guy who profiles as a utility guy (Urias, Mateo, Vavra etc.) it's great to have them play multiple positions, but for your starters I'd rather have them master one position than be pretty good at multiple positions.

[TommyPickles]

I think Mayo and Holiday will both start in AAA. I think we'll see a lot of rotating lineups and matchups early on. 

 

The best defensive second baseman last year was Ramon Urias.

Fielding Bible said he was worth 4 DRS in 133 innings at 2B.

Westburg was worth 3 DRS in 324 innings at 2B. 

Frazier was worth -4 DRS in 948 innings at 2B.

 

Urias has a .758 OPS against righties, but only a .686 OPS against lefties.

Westburg has a .786 OPS against lefties, but only a .676 OPS against righties.

 

I don't think it'll be a pure platoon, but this is why I see Urias fitting into this infield in 2024.

[Sanity Check]

1 hour ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

I keep hearing a future (or present) move of Holiday at 2B, Gunnar at SS and Westburg at 3B. Is this the best defensive alignment? I was thinking it might better with Westburg at 2B, Holiday at SS and Gunnar at 3B. What do y'all think? 

I have seen both of them play shortstop, and based on my eye test, Jackson does not have the same arm strength to make the longer throws to get speedier guys out.  Personally, assuming their fielding and range are similar (and I don't know what those metrics suggest), my eye test tells me that Gunnar is better suited as the shortstop on this team, and Holliday then at 2nd.  Have you seen anything to make you feel like Jackson is better than Gunnar at short?  I'm genuinely interested why you may think Holliday is the better option at SS.

[btdart20]

1 minute ago, TommyPickles said:

I think Mayo and Holiday will both start in AAA. I think we'll see a lot of rotating lineups and matchups early on. 

 

The best defensive second baseman last year was Ramon Urias.

Fielding Bible said he was worth 4 DRS in 133 innings at 2B.

Westburg was worth 3 DRS in 324 innings at 2B. 

Frazier was worth -4 DRS in 948 innings at 2B.

 

Urias has a .758 OPS against righties, but only a .686 OPS against lefties.

Westburg has a .786 OPS against lefties, but only a .676 OPS against righties.

 

I don't think it'll be a pure platoon, but this is why I see Urias fitting into this infield in 2024.

Off topic:  Can we count these 4 runs in the pythag now?

[Sanity Check]

24 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

There is another obvious aspect to this that quite frankly we don’t talk about enough…are they hitting?

Westburg was ok last year but the power was definitely disappointing.  I can’t say I’m concerned about it yet but obviously these guys need to hit and Westburg is certainly the guy with the most questions right now.

I think/believe that Westburg is working to get stronger, and we will see the game power you're looking for.  From what I saw of him at Norfolk games I attended, he's a very polished hitter, and just needs to adjust to the major league level.  Fingers crossed he will surprise a lot of us this year with his production.  No guarantees, but I think he's that good.

[Bahama O's Fan]

36 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

I have seen both of them play shortstop, and based on my eye test, Jackson does not have the same arm strength to make the longer throws to get speedier guys out.  Personally, assuming their fielding and range are similar (and I don't know what those metrics suggest), my eye test tells me that Gunnar is better suited as the shortstop on this team, and Holliday then at 2nd.  Have you seen anything to make you feel like Jackson is better than Gunnar at short?  I'm genuinely interested why you may think Holliday is the better option at SS.

I have not watched alot of Holiday, but I thought that I read that he was a great fielder. Maybe I'm wrong there. I also thought Gunnar would be a better 3B than Westburg because of that arm strength. This is what I'm asking on here. You guys are real experts.

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

 No, Elias said Holliday will be playing a lot of second base but will also play SS. 

He said something along the lines of whenever he plays in 2024 it will be at 2B. He did say his natural position is SS and he will play some SS in the spring.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

He said something along the lines of whenever he plays in 2024 it will be at 2B. He did say his natural position is SS and he will play some SS in the spring.

I never saw him say that. I need to see that quote but everything I saw said he would play second a lot but still see time at SS.

[Aristotelian]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I never saw him say that. I need to see that quote but everything I saw said he would play second a lot but still see time at SS.

This was the quote, as near verbatim as I could get it. Key words being "best position possible" "eventual work" and "at any point in 2024". 

Jordan Westburg is up and established, and Adam Frazier is on the Royals. Looking at that I see some additional playing time for a lefthanded hitter at 2B so to put Jackson in the best position possible to make the team we're going to give him a lot of 2B action in spring training, to get a good hard look at that and to prepare him for eventual work at 2B, which, I think if he's on the team at any point in 2024, second base is going to be a big part of the equation. But he will also play SS too and Gunnar's not gonna play there 7 days a week... so we want to keep Jackson warm at SS too. 

[Sanity Check]

9 minutes ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

I have not watched alot of Holiday, but I thought that I read that he was a great fielder. Maybe I'm wrong there. I also thought Gunnar would be a better 3B than Westburg because of that arm strength. This is what I'm asking on here. You guys are real experts.

While I don't claim to be an expert, I will say that the ball generally gets to the third baseman sooner than a ball hit to short, and the throw is generally shorter than a throw from shortstop on a batted ball, so if my stronger arm guy is a good shortstop, that's where I'd want him.  I'd be okay with a lesser arm (compared to my shortstop) at third base for those reasons....ball get there quicker, and the throw is generally shorter.

[Sanity Check]

2 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

This was the quote, as near verbatim as I could get it. Key words being "best position possible" "eventual work" and "at any point in 2024". 

Jordan Westburg is up and established, and Adam Frazier is on the Royals. Looking at that I see some additional playing time for a lefthanded hitter at 2B so to put Jackson in the best position possible to make the team we're going to give him a lot of 2B action in spring training, to get a good hard look at that and to prepare him for eventual work at 2B, which, I think if he's on the team at any point in 2024, second base is going to be a big part of the equation. But he will also play SS too and Gunnar's not gonna play there 7 days a week... so we want to keep Jackson warm at SS too. 

That about as candid as one can get.  Thanks for posting this.

[RZNJ]

18 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

This was the quote, as near verbatim as I could get it. Key words being "best position possible" "eventual work" and "at any point in 2024". 

Jordan Westburg is up and established, and Adam Frazier is on the Royals. Looking at that I see some additional playing time for a lefthanded hitter at 2B so to put Jackson in the best position possible to make the team we're going to give him a lot of 2B action in spring training, to get a good hard look at that and to prepare him for eventual work at 2B, which, I think if he's on the team at any point in 2024, second base is going to be a big part of the equation. But he will also play SS too and Gunnar's not gonna play there 7 days a week... so we want to keep Jackson warm at SS too. 

And you said this.
 

“He said something along the lines of whenever he plays in 2024 it will be at 2B. He did say his natural position is SS and he will play some SS in the spring.”

One is not like the other.

 

[NashLumber]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm sticking with my prediction of Mayo at 3rd, Gunnar at short, Holliday at 2nd and Westburg as a super utility.

I am today years old when I realized his first name is Coby and not Colby. I guess my eyes see what it want to see, ie. a guy named after a cheese and mayo sandwich. Have some people here been typing his name that way and that's where I may have gotten it from. I remember Roy being very big on him last year in some threads. Heck of a '23.

He can rake (and bake). 

Breathes a sigh of relief. I'm not only one. A search for Colby on OH.

Edited February 9 by NashLumber

[Sports Guy]

57 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

This was the quote, as near verbatim as I could get it. Key words being "best position possible" "eventual work" and "at any point in 2024". 

Jordan Westburg is up and established, and Adam Frazier is on the Royals. Looking at that I see some additional playing time for a lefthanded hitter at 2B so to put Jackson in the best position possible to make the team we're going to give him a lot of 2B action in spring training, to get a good hard look at that and to prepare him for eventual work at 2B, which, I think if he's on the team at any point in 2024, second base is going to be a big part of the equation. But he will also play SS too and Gunnar's not gonna play there 7 days a week... so we want to keep Jackson warm at SS too. 

Ok, this is a far cry from you saying “whenever he plays, it will be at second base”. That’s not true and it’s not what Elias said.