Matt Holliday not happy

[Sports Guy]

Just now, dystopia said:

I've already given you evidence. If you don't like it that's not problem. Now go away.

No you didn’t. You didn’t show me any evidence about all the other clients. You also didn’t show me every Boras client to do an actual comp between all of his clients vs everyone else in baseball.  If he has 500 clients that were ready on OD and all of them were sent down and the rest of baseball is 499 or less, you will be correct.  I’m asking you to show me that since that’s the statement you made.  Who knows, maybe you are right but without that proof, your statement is just bs.

Let’s just say it for what it is. You lied. You have no idea if it’s true. It sounds good in your head, so you threw it out there assuming no one would call you on it. 

[Can_of_corn]

48 minutes ago, dystopia said:

They probably felt he wasn't ready in 2021. You're really grasping at straws here. He had an injury which was why he wasn't on the OD roster. 

He wasn't ready for a cup of coffee after the minor league season ended?

I'm the one grasping at straws?

I also clearly stated that after he was off the IL he was sent to the minors in 2022.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, clapdiddy said:

I believe this criteria has been met! 

Which is ironic since 70% of those who voted on this a few weeks back said they would be fine with him being demoted.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

He wasn't ready for a cup of coffee after the minor league season ended?

I'm the one grasping at straws?

I also clearly stated that after he was off the IL he was sent to the minors in 2022.

Well he should have been sent to the minors after that IL stint.  Not sure why you would mention that. 
 

But he should have been up in 2021 for sure.

[LookinUp]

43 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Nah. If his son isn’t willing to sign an extension, then it is disingenuous for him to bring that up as an example of why someone makes an OD roster and isn’t subject to being held back due to service time.

I 100% disagree with this point.

If they asked me about Jackson Holliday being up, I'd probably say exactly what Matt Holliday said. If he was already signed, he'd probably be up, but he isn't, so he's not. 

Just because Matt is the source doesn't mean there's a hidden meaning that he wants to extend. It's just an objective assessment of the system baseball has in place. Nothing more. Nothing less.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

I 100% disagree with this point.

If they asked me about Jackson Holliday being up, I'd probably say exactly what Matt Holliday said. If he was already signed, he'd probably be up, but he isn't, so he's not. 

Just because Matt is the source doesn't mean there's a hidden meaning that he wants to extend. It's just an objective assessment of the system baseball has in place. Nothing more. Nothing less.

I think there is a difference between advocating for an extension and being willing to sign one.

I think if you are going to throw this out, you are saying an extension is something they would hear the team out on and definitely look to get it done.

I think it would be disingenuous of him to say that this is a factor, only to turn around say, well my son is different..he’s not signing one of those.

Btw, I don’t think Holliday is being disingenuous. I think this is a positive personally.  

[Frobby]

24 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

So, what is your proof that it happens with his clients way more than every one else? 

I’m kind of skeptical too, but it’s a hard thing to prove or disprove.   

By the way, so far as I know, only 7 players have ever been signed to a long term contract before playing in a major league game — Jon Singleton, Luis Robert, Eloy Jimenez, Scott Kingery, Evan White, Jackson Chourio and Colt Keith.  
 

[Fiver6565]

Did anyone ask Coby Mayo’s dad what his thoughts are on Coby starting in AAA?  He had arguably a better spring than Holliday after all. 
 

Not sure why Matt’s opinion matters one bit more than any other parent, just because he was a ball player himself. 
 

That being said I don’t think his comments are anything to get riled up about anyway. He feels the same way probably half this board does - his son is down for service time reasons because that is what the system allows. I happen to disagree with that myself- I think Elias explained their reasoning quite well - but the reality is we’ll never truly know. 

[LookinUp]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I think there is a difference between advocating for an extension and being willing to sign one.

I think if you are going to throw this out, you are saying an extension is something they would hear the team out on and definitely look to get it done.

I think it would be disingenuous of him to say that this is a factor, only to turn around say, well my son is different..he’s not signing one of those.

Btw, I don’t think Holliday is being disingenuous. I think this is a positive personally.  

You're reading it as he's open to an extension, which is why you think it's a positive.

I'm not reading it that way at all. I see a guy who understands what happened probably happened because he didn't have an extension, and he's fine with that. 

We have no idea how new ownership will handle things, but I'd be much more positive about the likelihood of Holliday signing an extension if he was on the opening day roster. At least then I could make up tea leaves that they've had preliminary talks that give the O's some comfort. But he's not, so I read it as he's not indicating a willingness to re-sign anytime soon.

And all of that is speculation.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

I’m kind of skeptical too, but it’s a hard thing to prove or disprove.   

By the way, so far as I know, only 7 players have ever been signed to a long term contract before playing in a major league game — Jon Singleton, Luis Robert, Eloy Jimenez, Scott Kingery, Evan White, Jackson Chourio and Colt Keith.  
 

Of course it’s a hard thing to prove. What does ready mean?  And if that player is ready, what is the situation in the majors?

Tons of factors…which is exactly why it was a completely made up, bs statement.

[sportsfan8703]

Everyone brings up the Boras stuff with Holliday but didn’t he sign as the #1 pick for less than what Druw Jones signed for?

So Holliday did already say just pay me fair and let me go play baseball. Then nobody’s wildest dreams would have predicted what he’s accomplished. 

So the good will has been there on the Holliday side. 

And this is kind of messing with his legacy. That ROY award matters in career milestones and the records he could flirt with. Now he doesn’t have that chance. 

Edited March 27 by sportsfan8703

[LookinUp]

2 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Everyone brings up the Boras stuff with Holliday but didn’t he sign as the #1 pick for less than what Druw Jones signed for?

So Holliday did already say just pay me fair and let me go play baseball. Then nobody’s wildest dreams would have predicted what he’s accomplished. 

So the good will has been there on the Holliday side. 

And this is kind of messing with his legacy. That ROY award matters in career milestones and the records he could flirt with. Now he doesn’t have that chance. 

1. He didn't know he was going #1 overall. He likely negotiated that pre-draft from his perceived bargaining position.

2. Yes, he can still win the ROY award. Now if the O's keep him down for a significant amount of time, that would change.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

1. He didn't know he was going #1 overall. He likely negotiated that pre-draft from his perceived bargaining position.

2. Yes, he can still win the ROY award. Now if the O's keep him down for a significant amount of time, that would change.

If he prenegotiated with the team that had the first pick he had a pretty good idea he was going first overall.

Boras doesn't do any heavy lifting for his clients during the drafting process through the arbitration years.

Just isn't much room to maneuver. 

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

If he prenegotiated with the team that had the first pick he had a pretty good idea he was going first overall.

Boras doesn't do any heavy lifting for his clients during the drafting process through the arbitration years.

Just isn't much room to maneuver. 

It’s basically slotted for your service time.  Some variations obviously but you roughly have an idea.

Thats why this whole “he won’t sign a contract” stuff is bs.

Now, what I do think may be accurate is that it will cost more to get a boras client to sign vs another agent. I don’t have a problem with that sentiment. It will, for example, cost more to keep Holliday than it will Mayo or Basallo.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

It’s basically slotted for your service time.  Some variations obviously but you roughly have an idea.

Thats why this whole “he won’t sign a contract” stuff is bs.

Now, what I do think may be accurate is that it will cost more to get a boras client to sign vs another agent. I don’t have a problem with that sentiment. It will, for example, cost more to keep Holliday than it will Mayo or Basallo.

Yea, I don't think a player with Boras as his agent is going to get more in an Arb 2 hearing over any other competent agent.  Makes me question why any player would bother with Boras (I'm assuming he costs more) before they are looking at a long term deal or Free agency.  Most guys probably don't even need an agent for the first three seasons, just pay a good lawyer an hourly fee to do the paperwork.