Gunnar Henderson 2024

[ScGO's]

I'm fine with Gunnar at SS, but am I the only one that thinks he'd be a hell of a centerfielder?

[RZNJ]

7 hours ago, Uli2001 said:

Thank you. I knew there was something bogus about that post. I saw Cal play SS. And Gunnar is no Cal at SS. Not even close.

And this is coming from a big fan of Gunnar. I would like to see him play a traditional power position. Call me old fashioned. He’s hurting the team at SS. 

What you’re suggesting (a possible move to 1B) isn’t old fashioned.   It’s stupid.     Stop.

[Aristotelian]

44 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

It’s also possible he would be at 7-8 WAR at third if his defense was much better, which I think it could be.

He was really good at 3B when he came up. The question is who plays SS in that scenario. We traded Ortiz and Holliday looks like more of a 2B. I don't see anyone in the system who can play better SS than Gunnar.

[Sports Guy]

8 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

He was really good at 3B when he came up. The question is who plays SS in that scenario. We traded Ortiz and Holliday looks like more of a 2B. I don't see anyone in the system who can play better SS than Gunnar.

I don’t know. We don’t know how much Holliday improves. Or if it’s OFarrell or someone outside the org.

Westburg is obviously a factor here as well, just not at SS.

The answer you want is they Holliday improves. But can he? Does he?

I have said it for over a year now but I don’t see Gunnar as an elite SS. He can be very good but I don’t see him being on the level of guys like Witt. Can he be elite at third and can we get someone who is better than average at SS?  Who knows.

Gunnar will be the SS in 2025..I don’t think there’s any question about that and really, that’s how it should be but you can’t have someone over there with his poor fundamentals and making easy plays look tough as often as he does. That has to change.

This is going to be one extremely interesting offseason.

[Safelykept]

16 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t know. We don’t know how much Holliday improves. Or if it’s OFarrell or someone outside the org.

Westburg is obviously a factor here as well, just not at SS.

The answer you want is they Holliday improves. But can he? Does he?

I have said it for over a year now but I don’t see Gunnar as an elite SS. He can be very good but I don’t see him being on the level of guys like Witt. Can he be elite at third and can we get someone who is better than average at SS?  Who knows.

Gunnar will be the SS in 2025..I don’t think there’s any question about that and really, that’s how it should be but you can’t have someone over there with his poor fundamentals and making easy plays look tough as often as he does. That has to change.

This is going to be one extremely interesting offseason.

On board with that. Less razzle Dazzle, more fundamentals, Knowing which throws not to make, etc. I also wonder if the offensive numbers Hes putting up are somewhat distracting, He's a rare talent, but he can be better.

[Sports Guy]

20 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t know. We don’t know how much Holliday improves. Or if it’s OFarrell or someone outside the org.

Westburg is obviously a factor here as well, just not at SS.

The answer you want is they Holliday improves. But can he? Does he?

I have said it for over a year now but I don’t see Gunnar as an elite SS. He can be very good but I don’t see him being on the level of guys like Witt. Can he be elite at third and can we get someone who is better than average at SS?  Who knows.

Gunnar will be the SS in 2025..I don’t think there’s any question about that and really, that’s how it should be but you can’t have someone over there with his poor fundamentals and making easy plays look tough as often as he does. That has to change.

This is going to be one extremely interesting offseason.

Btw, I’m not saying he can’t improve, which is why I think in 2025 he should be the SS.

I just don’t see him being an elite level guy year in and year out at that position. 

[Aristotelian]

33 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t know. We don’t know how much Holliday improves. Or if it’s OFarrell or someone outside the org.

Westburg is obviously a factor here as well, just not at SS.

The answer you want is they Holliday improves. But can he? Does he?

I have said it for over a year now but I don’t see Gunnar as an elite SS. He can be very good but I don’t see him being on the level of guys like Witt. Can he be elite at third and can we get someone who is better than average at SS?  Who knows.

Gunnar will be the SS in 2025..I don’t think there’s any question about that and really, that’s how it should be but you can’t have someone over there with his poor fundamentals and making easy plays look tough as often as he does. That has to change.

This is going to be one extremely interesting offseason.

I haven't followed the new class closely but seems likely they are at least a full year away. Holliday really looks like 2B for me. His arm isn't that strong and he even struggles with throws from 2B. When you put together the whole package of offense and defense, it is pretty hard to beat Gunnar's production at SS. He does not have to be better than Witt to be extremely valuable at SS. Until we have another player capable of 8 WAR at the position I think Gunnar owns it. That also allows you to put Westburg or Mayo at 3B. I don't see Westburg outperforming Gunnar at SS offensively or defensively but he can be a plus 3B.

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

It’s also possible he would be at 7-8 WAR at third if his defense was much better, which I think it could be.

I can see it. Would be interesting to see who goes to SS in that case.  
 

This isn’t an invitation to start discussing Holliday’s arm. 

[Sports Guy]

9 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I can see it. Would be interesting to see who goes to SS in that case.  
 

This isn’t an invitation to start discussing Holliday’s arm. 

Right and I’m not trying to turn it into that.

Im solely talking about the long term outlook of Gunnar at SS and I don’t see him as a long term answer over there but I do think it’s possible.

 

[RZNJ]

This idea that Gunnar should move to third because he’s not elite at SS is pure nonsense.   Even the idea of moving him because he’s not elite and then talking about Holliday and Westburg at SS is laughable.

Even with the defensive slump, Gunnar is average at SS.   However, he only made 8 errors at SS last year in 83 games and he was among the top 3 SS in the AL in defensive metrics in the first half.

He’s a 23 yo SS who’s already good with the ability to be well above average, if not elite.   
 

SportsGuy has had a Gunnar to 3B agenda for quite some time.   A lot of it had to do with his obsession that Holliday was drafted 1:1 as a SS and SS for the Baltimore was his destiny.   It’s sad.

Think about this.  He doesn’t argue that the current, super talented SS can get better.   He only argues that Holliday can get better.    We know Gunnar does everything well at SS but he’s been error prone in the 2nd half.   He has the tools to be very, very good.   He’s also shown he can go long stretches at SS without making a lot of errors.

Stop the sillines!

Edited September 8 by RZNJ

[Frobby]

17 hours ago, Uli2001 said:

My wild prediction is that Gunnar Henderson will never be as good a defensive shortstop as Ripken. He will never win a gold glove as SS, much less two. But keep the Ripken comparisons coming, so you can ruin Henderson even more.

The problem on this board is that it can't tolerate any criticism of the team's star players.

You’re the one who threw Ripken into the discussion.  And I don’t think anyone is necessarily saying that Gunnar will be as good as Ripken.  Cal is 3rd all time in Total Zone Runs for a SS.  But, Cal also proves that you don’t judge a SS solely on how many errors they make.  The years that Cal made 26, 25 and 25 errors, he was +11, +23, +O Rtot.  And  Gunnar is playing a solid SS now by the advanced metrics.  

[wildcard]

3B looks pretty full moving forward.  Not much room for Gunnar there.

Elias seem insistent on Mayo playing mostly 3B.   He has played 3B in the majority of his AAA games and when called to the majors he plays 3B.   He could play 1B or DH and there is speculation that he will play some OF.   But Elias actions seems to say Mayo will play 3B most of his at bats going forward.

What that does to Westburg is a question.    He is an everyday player.  As soon as he is healthy and into next season.   He is an All Star.   Maybe his versatility is what makes Elias think its easier to move Westy off 3B than move Mayo off 3B.

Then there is Urias.   When Westy gets injured its Urias that gets the lions share of play time at 3B.  Considering that Gunnar is established at SS, I don't see him playing much if any 3B.

Next spring Kjerstad may be in right and Holliday at SS.  That's two guys still going through their Rookie Adjustment Period.    I don't think Elias is going to want to add Mayo to that mix until at least one of Holliday or Kjerstad establishes themselves.    So Mayo might be a 3B in waiting until that happens.

Edited September 9 by wildcard

[Uli2001]

14 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

But I find it funny that you want to be called old fashioned, yet here we are discussing Cal Ripken, the guy that broke the mold for what a shortstop can be and turned it into a power position.  Ripken was ultimate anti-traditionalist of the position and responsible for the slew of power hitting shortstops that came in after him.  And quite frankly, I don't know why we're talking about power when we're debating defense.

There's no inconsistency. Cal Ripken was a rare player. And still is.

[Moose Milligan]

44 minutes ago, Uli2001 said:

There's no inconsistency. Cal Ripken was a rare player. And still is.

You really don’t address anything in that post. 

[Just Regular]

Szymborski forecasted all the SS careers for his In Praise of Francisco Lindor piece today, and mentioned Gunnar's projection being a bit short of the all-time Top 30 SS by Jay Jaffe's JAWS metric.

Cal is 107 up on Lindor for the time being for the Home Runs While Playing Shortstop record he narrowly holds over Alex Rodriguez.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/francisco-lindor-is-already-a-plausible-hall-of-famer/