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Allan Bryant Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

Allan Bryant

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29 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

His numbers in his prime weren’t exactly prime.  WHIP of 1.5.  More walks than strikeouts.  It would be similar to giving Cionel Perez every save opportunity and rack up some saves.   Stanhouse wasn’t very good but he had the job.

 

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Stanhouse wasn’t very good ?  His ERA was 2.89 and 2.82 , those are not good ?   Gave up 4 HRS in 147 innings are not good ?   He had the job because he performed ( as ugly it was) .   But I agree with your 1.5 WHIP which is poor for a closer . Then again all this was over 40 years ago . If Stanhouse as back then, attempting to pitch today, he likely would get annilated ( like the other poster said ) . 

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DrungoHazewood
DrungoHazewood

As Corn said, it's as real as anything else. But since it's new you're not used to the assumptions like you are with ERA. You will just accept that ERA does really weird and wacky things (like, for ex

Can_of_corn
Can_of_corn

Yea, he's had 780 regular season appearances.

DirtyBird
DirtyBird

He’s a turd. Always has been a turd. And his hair is gross.

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RZNJ Hangout Grand Counsel

RZNJ

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2 hours ago, Allan Bryant said:

Stanhouse wasn’t very good ?  His ERA was 2.89 and 2.82 , those are not good ?   Gave up 4 HRS in 147 innings are not good ?   He had the job because he performed ( as ugly it was) .   But I agree with your 1.5 WHIP which is poor for a closer . Then again all this was over 40 years ago . If Stanhouse as back then, attempting to pitch today, he likely would get annilated ( like the other poster said ) . 

He had a good ERA.  I think his FIP was 3.66 the one year and 4.66 the other.   

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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38 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

He had a good ERA.  I think his FIP was 3.66 the one year and 4.66 the other.   

Stanhouse got by. It was fine. I hesitate to call his performances good. He tightrope walked his way to a fair number of saves for the era. By bb-ref's figuring his defense was good for nearly half a run a game when he was on the mound, and Memorial Stadium was a pitcher's park.

But the same year Stanhouse had 51 walks and 34 strikeouts in 72 innings, Jim Kern had 136 strikeouts in 143 innings and a 1.57 ERA. Mike Marshall threw 90 games and 142 innings of relief to a 2.65. Señor Smoke had 106 strikeouts and 51 walks in 127 innings. Sid Monge had 108 strikeouts in relief. Rookie Mark Clear struck out 98 in 109 relief innings.

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RZNJ Hangout Grand Counsel

RZNJ

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Just now, Allan Bryant said:

I admit I don’t know what FIP stat represents. 

 

1 minute ago, Allan Bryant said:

I admit I don’t know what FIP stat represents. 

FIP stands for Fielding Independent Pitching. It is a statistic that measures a pitcher's effectiveness based on factors they have the most control over, such as strikeouts, walks, hit-by-pitches, and home runs, while excluding the outcomes of balls hit into play.

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Allan Bryant Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

Allan Bryant

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6 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

 

FIP stands for Fielding Independent Pitching. It is a statistic that measures a pitcher's effectiveness based on factors they have the most control over, such as strikeouts, walks, hit-by-pitches, and home runs, while excluding the outcomes of balls hit into play.

Thanks , much appreciated 

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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13 hours ago, RZNJ said:

 

FIP stands for Fielding Independent Pitching. It is a statistic that measures a pitcher's effectiveness based on factors they have the most control over, such as strikeouts, walks, hit-by-pitches, and home runs, while excluding the outcomes of balls hit into play.

And for a little more context for @Allan Bryant, it's been shown that FIP is more predictive of next year's ERA than this year's ERA. Since things like defensive support and the outcome of balls in play are very noisy, or unpredictable.

Knowing nothing else about a pitcher with a a 3.00 ERA and a 4.50 FIP, you'd do well to assume his next year's ERA will be closer to 4.50 than 3.00.

Edited by DrungoHazewood
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dystopia Hangout Veteran Council

dystopia

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2 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

And for a little more context for @Allan Bryant, it's been shown that FIP is more predictive of next year's ERA than this year's ERA. Since things like defensive support and the outcome of balls in play is very noisy, or unpredictable.

Knowing nothing else about a pitcher with a a 3.00 ERA and a 4.50 FIP, you'd do well to assume his next year's ERA will be closer to 4.50 than 3.00.

Which makes it strange anyone would go back and look at historical FIP as if it means something. It's also still not very predictive at all. At least ERA represents actual results.

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dystopia Hangout Veteran Council

dystopia

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9 minutes ago, ScGO's said:

He will pass Smith next season, but I think that's gonna be it; just don't think he has the longevity to go for 4 or more seasons to try and chase the 1 and 2 spots.

Definite HOFer though

He'll probably shoot for 500 and then call it a career.

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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4 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

Will Kimbrel be an All Star? He's tied for 4th in saves with a 0.93 WHIP and .147 batting average against. I suggested a month or so again that he might get selected and got shot down. Is he deserving of a bid?

He could.

A lot of times the charity selections go to bullpen guys so who knows how many slots will be there?

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DrungoHazewood

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19 minutes ago, dystopia said:

Which makes it strange anyone would go back and look at historical FIP as if it means something. It's also still not very predictive at all. At least ERA represents actual results.

I'm not sure why you'd say ERA represents actual results, while FIP doesn't. FIP accounts for actual walks, strikeouts and homers that are more-or-less just the responsibility of the pitcher. ERA lumps in all kinds of things outside of the pitcher's control, most importantly the quality of the defense behind him. And also the luck of where balls fall in or not. Also the performance of the relievers who come in after the pitcher in question has left someone on base.

Truthfully, ERA is a team stat that's heavily influenced by the pitcher. But it was all we had so we call it an individual stat.

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