Passan: MLB Must Act Now on Pitching Injuries

[Rbiggs2525]

14 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Interesting stuff from Verlander here.

The change in the baseball is interesting. That, I guess, is the thing MLB could fix and has control over.

There is a guy who tries out all the new and old aluminum bats to check EV data. I wonder if someone has a bucket of balls from each year. Would be an interesting study.

[crowmst3k!]

1 hour ago, jabba72 said:

HD camaras have really been influential on improving spin rates but pitchers elbows cant handle the torque. The only solution I see is to go back to pre HD analysis of spin and grip. Not sure when or if MLB clubs will do this.

Cat's already out of the bag there.  If the tech exists to get an edge, teams will use it. 

[Moose Milligan]

Interesting that the guy who made a career and millions of dollars and bagged a supermodel wife by throwing as hard as he could is noting that guys are doing just what he did and calling it a "pandemic".

[yark14]

There is no off-season for them to rest and recover anymore.  Instead they chase max velo over the winter.

@Can_of_corn would be pissed if I mention by name a company that rhymes with thrivetime. 

[ThomasTomasz]

2 hours ago, casadeozo said:

I’m sure there are many examples, but how to explain a player like Aroldis Chapman who has been consistently the hardest thrower in MLB the past 15 years seemingly never having a serious arm injury?

And Kershaw, Scherzer and Greinke never having it.  

Teams need to start focusing on the pitchers who haven’t had the surgery and what they’ve done to avoid it.  

[24fps]

1 hour ago, .500_OR_BETTER said:

Look at what these "velocity" farm clinics are doing to young kids now.  They advertise that they can increase your velo on all your pitches, etc. They are now having such young kids (I think even at ages 12 now) that can sign up for these camps and all they do is focus on pitching exercises that put so much torque and stress on their throwing arms.

This is a really important point.  Dr. James Andrews published a white paper in the mid-1990's about the permanent effects of excessive, high-velocity pitching on boys who haven't reached full physical maturity.  I can't find it, but the upshot is that it is a prime contributing factor in the increased number of pitching injuries later in life.  No surprise there, but what can MLB do to dissuade parents from wanting to give their kid every "advantage"?  There's a cultural problem that also needs to be addressed and I don't see that happening.

[DirtyBird]

21 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Interesting that the guy who made a career and millions of dollars and bagged a supermodel wife by throwing as hard as he could is noting that guys are doing just what he did and calling it a "pandemic".

Except he's not saying that guys are doing what he is doing. He is saying they are now doing as kids what he did as an adult. I think there is probably some validity to that, with sports specialization at a young age - kids throwing a baseball year round instead of taking some time off to play football and basketball.

[Mooreisbetter27]

10 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

Except he's not saying that guys are doing what he is doing. He is saying they are now doing as kids what he did as an adult. I think there is probably some validity to that, with sports specialization at a young age - kids throwing a baseball year round instead of taking some time off to play football and basketball.

This is where I'm at.  From everything I've heard and read, it's more of a deterioration of the ligament that causes TJ.  That would have to be over time, not just suddenly.  And if kids are doing it before they're fully developed then I could certainly see that leading to a quicker deterioration.

Glasnow talking about the grip without being able to use anything was also interesting IMO.  If you're gripping the ball tighter to try and get the movement you want, there would be more strain on your arm.  

[btdart20]

50 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The change in the baseball is interesting. That, I guess, is the thing MLB could fix and has control over.

What are you saying?  If 'that' equals 'the change in baseball' per normal grammar, then what?

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

What are you saying?  If 'that' equals 'the change in baseball' per normal grammar, then what?

Did you listen to the interview and hear what Verlander said about the ball?  If so, that would answer your question.

MLb can’t regulate travel teams and youth. They can’t tell players to stop throwing hard or with less spin. But if the baseball is a contributing factor, as Verlander is saying, that is something they could change.

[24fps]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Did you listen to the interview and hear what Verlander said about the ball?  If so, that would answer your question.

MLb can’t regulate travel teams and youth. They can’t tell players to stop throwing hard or with less spin. But if the baseball is a contributing factor, as Verlander is saying, that is something they could change.

The size of the strike zone is another thing that MLB has control over.  Tinkering with all the things we're discussing will have the net effect of suppressing offense and I suspect that will be enough to prevent anything meaningful from happening.

[btdart20]

20 minutes ago, 24fps said:

This is a really important point.  Dr. James Andrews published a white paper in the mid-1990's about the permanent effects of excessive, high-velocity pitching on boys who haven't reached full physical maturity.  I can't find it, but the upshot is that it is a prime contributing factor in the increased number of pitching injuries later in life.  No surprise there, but what can MLB do to dissuade parents from wanting to give their kid every "advantage"?  There's a cultural problem that also needs to be addressed and I don't see that happening.

Agreed.  Local Dad coaching rec riding a pitcher or two for little league glory is silly.  Especially in playoffs or tournaments.  Travel ball is slightly more educated but have a 'fools rush in where angels fear to tread' to some degree.  Club ball can have quality coaching but still a ton of unknowns. 

[btdart20]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Did you listen to the interview and hear what Verlander said about the ball?  If so, that would answer your question.

MLb can’t regulate travel teams and youth. They can’t tell players to stop throwing hard or with less spin. But if the baseball is a contributing factor, as Verlander is saying, that is something they could change.

Yes I did.  He listed quite a few "changes".  The most important I noted somehow shifting the incentives.  But the context of your comment didn’t seem to be focused on that.  

[foxfield]

11 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

Agreed.  Local Dad coaching rec riding a pitcher or two for little league glory is silly.  Especially in playoffs or tournaments.  Travel ball is slightly more educated but have a 'fools rush in where angels fear to tread' to some degree.  Club ball can have quality coaching but still a ton of unknowns. 

This happens sure, but parents are not kicking and screaming about don't make my kid a star when this happens.  No they post film and stats on Facebook about their kid and tell em to keep grinding and throwing harder and glory lies ahead.  

It's easy to bash coaches...dad's and little league, but it's all of it.  I thought the Verlander interview offered some good insight.  And if MLB wants the games faster and thus the pitch clock, they should look for ways to incentivize pitchers like Jim Palmer.  He threw to contact and it worked out pretty well for him and for the O's.  

Yes the game has changed as Verlander mentioned.  The need for swings ands misses now is huge.  MLB could alter the ball, or even the distance of the mound.  Of course, HR's sell and strikes outs by pitchers get paid.

It is an interesting problem and it will require some true give and take by MLB and the MLBPA to make changes.  I am not optimistic as these two often seem driven by now versus the future...but it is what is needed.

Edited April 9 by foxfield

[Moose Milligan]

23 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Did you listen to the interview and hear what Verlander said about the ball?  If so, that would answer your question.

MLb can’t regulate travel teams and youth. They can’t tell players to stop throwing hard or with less spin. But if the baseball is a contributing factor, as Verlander is saying, that is something they could change.

They're not going to change the baseball anytime soon, especially for something like this.

MLB wants steroid era stats without the steroids.  And they also want guys throwing 100 MPH.