The 2024 Trade Deadline

[terpoh]

47 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Think of it like this,

Lebron needs a 3 and Defense guy around him. A guy like Deladova or Reeves. That’s a very valuable role to a contending team. A role player. A specialist. 

That guy that was so valuable to Lebron, the Charlotte Bobcats don’t want. They’d rather take the chance that another player can do it all and not just be a specialist. 

So for 2025

Norby - His role will be to play LF vs LHP. He’ll be an emergency 2B option as well if injuries happen. That’s a clear role. 

Stowers - Stowers will be our 4th OF next year. 

These are what role players are on a contending team. You can only play 9 guys at once. Why would another team want our part time role players?  They want younger guys with higher ceilings.

All of this is just my opinion. You’re entitled to yours as well and I’ll listen. 

As of now, the only person moving on from the OF after 2024 would be Santander if we dont resign him (which I hope we do). You are not accounting for Hays or Mullins, and you would still have Kjerstad and Cowser above Stowers or Norby. Not even mentioning O'Hearn who has still played some RF and we still have under contract if we want him next year. I dont see any reasonable road to Stowers or Norby getting at bats in 2025 just like they dont have one now. So I guess that leads the conversation to Norby vs Hays for a backup role next year right? On a contending team, Hays makes a lot more sense to me as your 4th OF/lF vs LHP than relegating Norby to that role. By all accounts he plays better defense in the OF than Norby, and is more versatile across all 3 OF positions in a pinch. You also kind of know what youre getting with Hays, where as Norby could come up and really struggle (like most prospects do) offensively, especially throwing him into a role with limited at bats. He is far more valuable as a trade piece than as a low at bat backup who isnt known for defense. Using Norby sparingly, and in a role he may not succeed in is not what best for his development of our contending team. He is still a former, or current borderline, top 100 prospect in baseball who is young enough to still have some decent trade value- more value than Hays in that regard. To me thats how I look at it:

More value as a backup/defensive value role player outfielder in 2025 - Hays > Norby

More value as a trade candidate to bring back pitching - Norby > Hays.

As for Stowers, He's left handed which puts him in competition for time vs Mullins/Cowser/Kjerstad. As of this year, he is behind all of them for at bats, and I wouldnt see that changing next year. You could argue that YOU would rather have him playing over Mullins, and I wouldnt necessarily disagree, but the Orioles wouldnt, and you're not going to play all of them together all the time as three left handed hitters. We've seen Hyde's hesitancy to pay lefties vs LHP, and in most cases its been warranted.

I think the best action for the Orioles moving into 2025 would be to trade Mullins or Hays this offseason. I would prefer to keep Hays since hes one of our only right handed options. That would open up a bench spot for Stowers maybe. I would also like to resign Tony as he provides solid defense, elite power, great in the locker room, and an ability to play him vs both RHP and LHP. 

If they trade Mullins and re-sign Tony that leaves you with:

LF Kjerstad, CF Cowser, RF Santander, 4th OF Hays. If you wanted to argue that Norby or Stowers would be good as a 5th OF, ok, but I would argue they would have more value as a trade candidate than buried as 5th OF. 

[Rbiggs2525]

Now that we have Burch Smith I think all needs are filled. 

[Roll Tide]

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Think of it like this,

Lebron needs a 3 and Defense guy around him. A guy like Deladova or Reeves. That’s a very valuable role to a contending team. A role player. A specialist. 

That guy that was so valuable to Lebron, the Charlotte Bobcats don’t want. They’d rather take the chance that another player can do it all and not just be a specialist. 

So for 2025

Norby - His role will be to play LF vs LHP. He’ll be an emergency 2B option as well if injuries happen. That’s a clear role. 

Stowers - Stowers will be our 4th OF next year. 

These are what role players are on a contending team. You can only play 9 guys at once. Why would another team want our part time role players?  They want younger guys with higher ceilings.

All of this is just my opinion. You’re entitled to yours as well and I’ll listen. 

Why would you platoon Norby? Norby is an everyday bat in the majors. Honestly, I’m disappointed he hasn’t gotten a shot here. I’m hoping we trade him and Stowers for value so they get a real chance to realize their dream.

[Bemorewins]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

I’m just looking forward to the day when we’re not debating the merits of Stowers and Norby. 

I second that.

[Roll Tide]

6 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I second that.

@Moose Milligan
 

So the solution is simple, to deal them or clear a path

[gamiliel]

51 minutes ago, Rbiggs2525 said:

Now that we have Burch Smith I think all needs are filled. 

Don't underestimate this guy....he has a sort of Maddux quality to him.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, gamiliel said:

Don't underestimate this guy....he has a sort of Maddux quality to him.

Mike?

[Bemorewins]

39 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

@Moose Milligan
 

So the solution is simple, to deal them or clear a path

There is no path to really clear for either one.

Mullins, Cowser, and Kjerstad are in front of Stowers as a left handed hitting outfielder for this year and next AND Stowers wil be 27 next season (well into his prime). The very best thing for him and his career at this point is to send him somewhere he will get a chance to play regularly at the Major League level.

Right now, sure Norby could play 2B if you got rid of Mateo. But the problem with doing that is that you start his service clock and given that we have 2 INF who are much better/more talented at AAA (Mayo and Holliday) still yet to join the team, there is no place for him beyond this season. Unless Mayo moves to 1B or you trade him or Holliday, there is already no place for those two as is.

I hope for both Norby and Stowers sake they are sent somewhere where they get a regular opportunity as both have the potential to be solid/productive MLB players.

[emmett16]

5 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

There is no path to really clear for either one.

Mullins, Cowser, and Kjerstad are in front of Stowers as a left handed hitting outfielder for this year and next AND Stowers wil be 27 next season (well into his prime). The very best thing for him and his career at this point is to send him somewhere he will get a chance to play regularly at the Major League level.

Right now, sure Norby could play 2B if you got rid of Mateo. But the problem with doing that is that you start his service clock and given that we have 2 INF who are much better/more talented at AAA (Mayo and Holliday) still yet to join the team, there is no place for him beyond this season. Unless Mayo moves to 1B or you trade him or Holliday, there is already no place for those two as is.

I hope for both Norby and Stowers sake they are sent somewhere where they get a regular opportunity as both have the potential to be solid/productive MLB players.

Norby is a candidate to replace Hays.  I’d say that’s his clearest path. 

[Bemorewins]

2 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

Norby is a candidate to replace Hays.  I’d say that’s his clearest path. 

What do you think helps the O's more?

Norby as a back up/platoon player next year (where he will be the weak side of that platoon as a RHB) or Norby being used as a trade chip as part of a package this season?

I guess that answer will determine if he is still on the roster after the deadline.

[Frobby]

I think Stowers is somewhat underrated here.   He was quite credible (.724 OPS) in his 2022 debut.   He’s been quite credible (.797 OPS) this year.  The only time he truly struggled was last year (.218 OPS).   He’s never had regular at bats in the majors.   I easily could imagine him putting up a high .700s OPS with regular playing time.   He’s just a victim of a numbers game.  I’m happy to keep him, but also fine with trading him if he (or a package including him) brings back something we need more.   

[emmett16]

4 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

What do you think helps the O's more?

Norby as a back up/platoon player next year (where he will be the weak side of that platoon as a RHB) or Norby being used as a trade chip as part of a package this season?

I guess that answer will determine if he is still on the roster after the deadline.

We need RH hitting.  Not sure how much he could net in a trade.  I think he could do some damage in a 300 AB season.  Hays is getting expensive.  He made 6.5MM this year and will get a raise next year.  I’m not saying I wouldn’t trade him, but Norby very likely has a role on the 2025 team.  

[StottyByNature]

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I think Stowers is somewhat underrated here.   He was quite credible (.724 OPS) in his 2022 debut.   He’s been quite credible (.797 OPS) this year.  The only time he truly struggled was last year (.218 OPS).   He’s never had regular at bats in the majors.   I easily could imagine him putting up a high .700s OPS with regular playing time.   He’s just a victim of a numbers game.  I’m happy to keep him, but also fine with trading him if he (or a package including him) brings back something we need more.   

I agree.  I think he's one of those guys who is probably more valuable to us as a player than as a trade chip.  But I wouldn't mind seeing Kjerstad or Cowser traded (at a presumably high return) and have Stowers get some playing time.  My thinking is that other teams would view him as a throw-in given his age while I think he's more valuable than that.

[orioles22]

I've never counted on Stowers as a regular even though he's had some big hits. I hope he could be a second or third piece in a trade for a pitcher.

[Roll Tide]

2 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

There is no path to really clear for either one.

Mullins, Cowser, and Kjerstad are in front of Stowers as a left handed hitting outfielder for this year and next AND Stowers wil be 27 next season (well into his prime). The very best thing for him and his career at this point is to send him somewhere he will get a chance to play regularly at the Major League level.

Right now, sure Norby could play 2B if you got rid of Mateo. But the problem with doing that is that you start his service clock and given that we have 2 INF who are much better/more talented at AAA (Mayo and Holliday) still yet to join the team, there is no place for him beyond this season. Unless Mayo moves to 1B or you trade him or Holliday, there is already no place for those two as is.

I hope for both Norby and Stowers sake they are sent somewhere where they get a regular opportunity as both have the potential to be solid/productive MLB players.

Cowser is nearing a demotion. After a nice start he’s been AAAA since. Mullins and Hays have 1 year left each and aren’t keepers.Honestly, Kjerstad scares me in the OF. I hope he will get better but have my doubts. And Sure …clear Urias and Mateo as neither is a long term piece. Stowers has an .800 OPS in a sample size that should’ve gotten him additional looks.