How far do you go to try to save this?

[Bemorewins]

10 minutes ago, Allan Bryant said:

Be  , regarding your first question, I believe Mr Rubenstein can be the ‘great leadership’ at the top, along with Elias and Sig . He needs be make financial commitment to Orioles continue success also . The big question, will he ?   Time will tell us 

Your second question I already answered in my previous reply to your post . But I will repeat it for you . Yes I do believe Elias and Sig can and will use exploit new technology and principles to help Orioles now and in future.  
Your previous post mentioned that Orioles will be drafting near the bottom of 1st round , which is true . But drafting low hasn’t stopped Dodgers , Yankees, Braves, Rays , Brewers , etc from being contenders. I can’t see why it should stop Orioles either 

I don't disagree that you can draft lower and still get/develop good talent. 

My point was that with drafting that low, you cannot rely on the consistent same level of top tier talent like Henderson, Rutschman, Holliday (successively). For one that was an aberration as it had never been done before.

We are going to have to use ALL the means available for talent acquisition OR the ceiling will be the Rays/Brewers/Guardians - good but never great/good enough.

[Malike]

2 minutes ago, Allan Bryant said:

Yeah , regarding the new CBA , one change I noticed is for draft .  The 2022  Orioles is the last team to pick 1st overall without lottery pick system began in 2023 . The idea behind lottery pick system is MLB frowns upon tanking teams . Did they done this in response to Elias  ?   Have no idea 

Regarding Toronto ‘tampering’ with Elias away the Orioles ?  I haven’t heard any rumors of that . Plus why would Elias want to leave Orioles for Toronto ?

I don't believe that Elias is completely responsible, plenty of teams have tanked and just not hit on picks. I think they want to encourage teams to be competitive.

[RZNJ]

3 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

Do you think an offer of Kjerstad, Norby, and Stowers/Beaver could land Gray and Helsley? 

Too much? Too little?

If you were Gray or a Cardinal fan, what would you say about a team that signed someone to a 3-year contract and traded him before the first year was up?   I’m not even sure it’s ever happened.   The Cardinals aren’t the rebuild type and they aren’t awful.   They’re not emptying the cupboards.

[Just Regular]

8 minutes ago, Allan Bryant said:

Yeah , regarding the new CBA , one change I noticed is for draft .  The 2022  Orioles is the last team to pick 1st overall without lottery pick system began in 2023 . The idea behind lottery pick system is MLB frowns upon tanking teams . Did they done this in response to Elias  ?   Have no idea 

Regarding Toronto ‘tampering’ with Elias away the Orioles ?  I haven’t heard any rumors of that . Plus why would Elias want to leave Orioles for Toronto ?

Toronto tampering - to be clear nothing in 2024 there - I'm just having fun with the Duquette memory.    For all I know Mike Elias already has a 37-year contract.

Toronto uncertainty and in the cases of a couple other teams with very strong individual players is some of why I don't expect many early trade moves, by almost everyone really.

You don't want to grab Erick Fedde and then not have roster space for Nick Pivetta or Yusei Kikuchi.     Justin Verlander and Max Scherzer also made it pretty plain last summer at this point in their careers they don't play any falls on clubs with zero dogpile chances.

It is true baseball media entertainment will click bait stuff to try and keep up product interest.

Edited June 20 by Just Regular

[Bemorewins]

2 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

If you were Gray or a Cardinal fan, what would you say about a team that signed someone to a 3-year contract and traded him before the first year was up?   I’m not even sure it’s ever happened.   The Cardinals aren’t the rebuild type and they aren’t awful.   They’re not emptying the cupboards.

I hear you. I know if I was Gray I would hate it.

However, they tried to sort of hedge last year and they are back in this same position again (IMO the worst position in pro sports to be in) mediocre.

They don't have enough talent in the org to seriously contend. Trading Gray and Helsley would not be "emptying the cupboards" IMO. They can sign a comparable pitcher like Gray in the offseason and find another closer for next year. However, what they don't/won't have is 3 position player starters who are young and controllable.

It was just a thought..

[RZNJ]

35 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I like it when Malike gets all feisty and types in all caps.

Might have to give himself a timeout.

[Malike]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

Might have to give himself a timeout.

I quoted someone, they just happened to use all caps. I'm not a big caps lock guy.

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I hear you. I know if I was Gray I would hate it.

However, they tried to sort of hedge last year and they are back in this same position again (IMO the worst position in pro sports to be in) mediocre.

They don't have enough talent in the org to seriously contend. Trading Gray and Helsley would not be "emptying the cupboards" IMO. They can sign a comparable pitcher like Gray in the offseason and find another closer for next year. However, what they don't/won't have is 3 position player starters who are young and controllable.

It was just a thought..

They are serious contenders.   As of today they are in the playoffs.   There are 9 N.L. teams within 1.5 games of each other for 2 spots.   How many of those teams are looking to sell their #1 starter?

[RZNJ]

4 minutes ago, Malike said:

I quoted someone, they just happened to use all caps. I'm not a big caps lock guy.

Just kidding.  

[Bemorewins]

2 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

They are serious contenders.   As of today they are in the playoffs.   There are 9 N.L. teams within 1.5 games of each other for 2 spots.   How many of those teams are looking to sell their #1 starter?

If by contender you mean they have a shot to make the playoffs then sure. But they are by no means a serious World Series contender. But I guess you could look at it like "look how far the D-backs went last year?"

IMO they are as much of a contender as the Red Sox who are also stuck in mediocrity. 

[RZNJ]

3 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

If by contender you mean they have a shot to make the playoffs then sure. But they are by no means a serious World Series contender. But I guess you could look at it like "look how far the D-backs went last year?"

IMO they are as much of a contender as the Red Sox who are also stuck in mediocrity. 

I do look at it like look how far the D-Backs got.   You know who else might be looking at it like that?   The team that swept us in a 3-game series.   Stupid stuff happens in the playoffs.   
 

Actually, look how far the Rangers got.  They barely made the playoffs.

Edited June 20 by RZNJ

[Bemorewins]

2 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I do look at it like look how far the D-Backs got.   You know who else might be looking at it like that?   The team that swept us in a 3-game series.   Stupid stuff happens in the playoffs.   
 

Actually, look how far the Rangers got.  They barely made the playoffs.

I agree about some of the randomness in a short series in the playoffs. However, I think it is probably not good planning to count on beating the longer odds/being the successful cinderella. 

[RZNJ]

3 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I agree about some of the randomness in a short series in the playoffs. However, I think it is probably not good planning to count on beating the longer odds/being the successful cinderella. 

Trading their #1 starter certainly wouldn’t increase the odds.   I suppose if you were a Cardinal fan you’d be telling them to sell, right?

[Bemorewins]

2 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Trading their #1 starter certainly wouldn’t increase the odds.   I suppose if you were a Cardinal fan you’d be telling them to sell, right?

Yes. I was happy that Elias sold in 2022. I think a good gm has to be realistic about what he has in terms of competitive chances for that season AND what he has within his org for the next few seasons.

I don't know how you read the Cards situation. But when I look at their non-MLB talent I see a nice righty Hence who is 21 at AA. Beyond him I see nothing special (and I'm not really sure if I would say that he is "special"). IMO they need an infusion of talent especially with Arenado and Goldschmidt aging out.

[Malike]

5 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Trading their #1 starter certainly wouldn’t increase the odds.   I suppose if you were a Cardinal fan you’d be telling them to sell, right?

So it was suggested they trade their Ace that they signed this offseason only to sign another Ace next offseason? Yeah, if I'm a pitcher and just saw that happen to Gray I'm not touching a contract with the Cardinals.