Trading for Tarik Skubal

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Ok, fair, but tell me why. 

So you are telling me a team with Mayo at 3B, Westburg at 2B and Skubel as part of a rotation this year, next year, and the year after does not give the team better chance than Westburg at 3B, Holliday at 2B, and Kremer or Suarez on the mound for game 3? 

I'm sorry, I like me some Holliday, but the Orioles have internal assets that can make up for Holliday while they have no one to make up for Skubel unless they plan to make significant trades and sign an impact starter this offseason, which of course will be too late for this year. 

Now, in the same vain, would I trade Basallo instead of Holliday in a trade for Skubel. Yes, yes I would for the same reasons. Mayo is the one that gives me pause, but I could not say I would either I guess. 

Skubel makes this organization better and gives them a better chance to win the World Series over the next three years. More of a chance than the Big-3, even if none of us want to see any of them go.

Your first paragraph is a straw man because those aren’t the only 2 choices and you trying to stack the deck is an unfair and poor discussion starter imo.

Skubal is great..probably the best pitcher in the league but he has never thrown 150 innings in any season and is an injury risk. He’s far from a guarantee and trading this level of talent isn’t a place I want to go.

As for your question…this year, the Os lack OBp and walks. I think Holliday brings that to the lineup and makes the lineup even better. We have seen this team go into funks and they are very much a hit HR or die type offense. He can help change that and make you more versatile in October. And he can be a 5+ WAR guy next year imo and Skubal may or may not do that, so I really disagree about next year.

Skubal will be over 200 IP by Oct in all likelihood. How well will he hold up with all those extra innings? We don’t know because he’s never done it.

I’ll take the elite everyday player over the elite pitcher. If we didn’t have Burnes and GRod at the top of the rotation, I may agree with your stance but if we make the bullpen a lot better and upgrade our #3 starter, I think we will be fine..and we keep our top 4 guys.

[Bemorewins]

1 minute ago, banks703 said:

This is true. But the difference between JH and those two is that the O's have a glutany of middle infielders, specifically two established All-Stars who are going to be with the club for another five seasons and JH is not a better defender than either of them. 

All true.

But same can be said for Mayo. Westburg is already an All-star an fa much better defender at 3B.

Adley is already a two-time All-Star, silver slugger winner, and one of the faces of your franchise and is ahead of Basallo.

My personal preference would be to keep Holliday and Mayo, and then trade Basallo.

But I am okay with any of the three bringing back a legit ace like Skubal.

Of course there are no guarantees and injuries can happen. But if you Skubal and another good reliever to this team, we will be World Series favorites. And that’s all I can ask for entering the playoffs. From there it’s on the players. 

But if we do another hedge-like move (i.e. 23’ Flaherty) and come up short, I think there will be cause for serious criticism. At some point you have to shoot your shot.

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, banks703 said:

I don’t need to see at this point though. First of all, the performance at his age is off the charts and very rare.

Secondly, he is universally thought of as an elite talent by everyone in and around the game.

And, most importantly, I trust Elias and his team and I know how they feel about him.

[banks703]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t need to see at this point though. First of all, the performance at his age is off the charts and very rare.

Secondly, he is universally thought of as an elite talent by everyone in and around the game.

And, most importantly, I trust Elias and his team and I know how they feel about him.

And will you lose trust and faith in ME and Co. if they end up dealing JH? 

[Sports Guy]

Just now, banks703 said:

And will you lose trust and faith in ME and Co. if they end up dealing JH? 

No…I think if they do that, it means they are down on JH for some reason and if that’s the case, I trust their judgment…I say this depending on who they trade him for of course but they aren’t doing it just because, so I think it’s safe to have this opinion.

[emmett16]

13 minutes ago, banks703 said:

This is true. But the difference between JH and those two is that the O's have a glutany of middle infielders, specifically two established All-Stars who are going to be with the club for another five seasons and JH is not a better defender than either of them. 

Fangraphs gives Holliday a 40/60 on D and Westburg a 40/40.  

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, emmett16 said:

Fangraphs gives Holliday a 40/60 on D and Westburg a 40/40.  

Banks doesn’t think Holliday will ever be a good defensive player.

FG is saying, we know he’s needs improvement but the upside is there to be more.

[emmett16]

18 minutes ago, Gurgi said:

Holliday does NOT give you plus defense.  He is below average right now.  

He will.  He is not below average right now. Unless you’re discounting him for his elbow issue.  

[Gurgi]

Just now, emmett16 said:

He will.  He is not below average right now. Unless you’re discounting him for his elbow issue.  

I would not trade Jackson for anything but I have watched Holliday play in at least 30 minor league games and the 15 games at the majors this year.  The guy is far from plus defense.  He does not do anything on defense that pops at you.  Maybe he figures it out and gets better but right now he is not good.  

His bat is going to be too good to give up on.  

[emmett16]

At the end of the day, if they trade for Skubal it’s gonna hurt.  But they’ve put themselves in the position to go get him and not mortgage the future.  I’ll be excited if we get him regardless of the price.  I trust the FO to make a good deal that will benefit the org. 

[Sports Guy]

The guy I really wonder about is Povich. Did his ML time help or hurt him?  How is he viewed? Would he be viewed the same as say, Kjerstad?  For example, if you wanted to deal Basallo in a Skubal trade, would Basallo and Povich equal Basallo and Kjerstad?

I would think no but Povich did look good at times up here, has had a good year overall and is a lefty starter.  Just wonder if any teams would value him as highly as a guy like Kjerstad?

[sportsfan8703]

32 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

It’s ok.  You have OHearn who can play most of the time at the position while Mayo is leaning. Hell, you could put Santander there if you feel you need to.

Im not worried about the first base defense. Get Mayo up now and by the playoffs, I think he will be fine. 
 

If it’s true the Os are willing to trade Mounty, Mayo is clearly the guy they would put there…not to mention, he has played more first recently. I don’t think that’s a coincidence.

We’re not living with Mayo’s defense in the field this year. This idea that we’re going to lowball the Tigers and somehow shed all of our vets and salary is the royal straight flush everyone loves to hear. Not realistic though. 

If the Tigers want to do a 1-1 swap with Skubal for Holliday then we’ll do that. 

Everyone can dream, but you’re just selling people on info they want to hear. The Royal Straight Flush. 

Everyone’s entitled to their idea but after we trade the vets does Elias tackle Inflation or World Hunger next?  Haha. Nothing personal. 

Edited July 23 by sportsfan8703

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, sportsfan8703 said:

We’re not living with Mayo’s defense in the field this year. This idea that we’re going to lowball the Tigers and somehow shed all of our vets and salary is the royal straight flush everyone loves to hear. Not realistic though. 

If the Tigers want to do a 1-1 swap with Skubal for Holliday then we’ll do that. 

Everyone can dream, but you’re just selling people on info they want to hear. The Royal Straight Flush. 

WTF?  I don’t even know what any of this post means.  

[emmett16]

9 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The guy I really wonder about is Povich. Did his ML time help or hurt him?  How is he viewed? Would he be viewed the same as say, Kjerstad?  For example, if you wanted to deal Basallo in a Skubal trade, would Basallo and Povich equal Basallo and Kjerstad?

I would think no but Povich did look good at times up here, has had a good year overall and is a lefty starter.  Just wonder if any teams would value him as highly as a guy like Kjerstad?

I think Povich is appealing to Detroit because they aren’t rebuilding.  They could be good next year.  Povich could help to fill the void of Skubal.  

[emmett16]

16 minutes ago, Gurgi said:

I would not trade Jackson for anything but I have watched Holliday play in at least 30 minor league games and the 15 games at the majors this year.  The guy is far from plus defense.  He does not do anything on defense that pops at you.  Maybe he figures it out and gets better but right now he is not good.  

His bat is going to be too good to give up on.  

He doesn’t do anything that pops out, but he makes the plays.  I’d say he is squarely average right now and with development will be a plus defender.