Organizational Turmoil?

[Just Regular]

4 minutes ago, banks703 said:

I have posted repeatedly that Kjerstad is NOT a major league outfielder. This is why I think the Mayo to First Base talk is meh. If both Mayo and Kjerstad are on the roster, Kjerstad is the guy who should be moved to First Base. Mayo's capacity to handle Third Base is head and shoulders above Kjerstad's in the outfield. He should never play LF at OPACY. I would run RO'H out there before Kjerstad. 

I had been curious to see the Kjerstad - Cowser - Santander max offense setup but certainly last night was concerning.

SIGBOT's been watching Kjerstad his whole pro career.    Santander being here these last couple months requires him not to drown in LF if we want those three plus "both Ryans" in the lineup at Mullins' expense.     O'Hearn as the "less catastrophic" LF option is a good call but I think by that point the odds tilt back to Cedric Mullins simply remaining in the first string as the 2024 Orioles chase a dogpile.

[Spakman]

34 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

You could tell he was a salty dog in the first month when Cowser was going off and the writing was on the wall. 
 

It’s unfortunate, I was a big fan also.  He was a gamer and always super nice with fans before & after games.  I wish him the best.  

He’s always been an often injured mediocre player. I liked him, but he should know very well that he was not playing good enough to keep his job. 

[banks703]

6 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

They tried HK at 1B.  It didn’t go very well.  

That's why he will eventually be David Ortiz. He is not a good defensive player by Major League standards anywhere. He looks to me like he grew up on the Tom Emanski videos. 

[banks703]

6 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

I had been curious to see the Kjerstad - Cowser - Santander max offense setup but certainly last night was concerning.

SIGBOT's been watching Kjerstad his whole pro career.    Santander being here these last couple months requires him not to drown in LF if we want those three plus "both Ryans" in the lineup at Mullins' expense.     O'Hearn as the "less catastrophic" LF option is a good call but I think by that point the odds tilt back to Cedric Mullins simply remaining in the first string as the 2024 Orioles chase a dogpile.

I think that you are probably right about Ced. At OPACY, it could be argued that Cowser in Left is more important than him in CF. I openly argued for a long time that CC was a plus defender in CF but the combo of CC, Ced and Ant from left to right is their best defensive outfield alignment. Ced just has to not be a blackhole at the plate. Perhaps Hays moving on opens the door for him to play more regularly which could get him going again like in June. I'd like to see them run Norby out there before HK. 

 

[spiritof66]

The Orioles have a lot of talent. But the combination of that talent is imperfect and, with other factors, creates some real challenges. A few of those factors are as follows. The injuries to starters, without MiL pitching depth to draw from as replacements. The loss of Bautista and  Coulombe. Kimbrel's subpar performances. The clogged pipeline of OF and IF talent while very little of that talent (Ortiz) is traded for pitching help. Established veterans who suffered through the lean years and want to be part of a winning Oriole team as everyday, or at least platoon regulars. Most of all, trying last season and this season both tp win a division title and integrate a bunch of inexperienced players. 

At least from the outside, the effect of those challenges on the clubhouse seemed negligible as long as the team was winning. Now that they're playing poorly -- and practcally the whole team is hitting below expectations and committing gaffes or errors on defense, the problems may rise to the surface. 

I may have made this up, at least in part, but I understood during the lean Tank Years that when the Orioles contended they would bring in a more experienced (and, I thought, tougher) manager -- someone who would stress how important it is to go out there every day with a clear head rather than one that's occupied with your own BA, OPS and future role, and who can help reduce the mental miscues and poor performance. Maybe the time for that is next year, when their will be few if any players (Santander?) who have a long history with Hyde.

 

[Just Regular]

1 minute ago, banks703 said:

That's why he will eventually be David Ortiz. He is not a good defensive player by Major League standards anywhere. He looks to me like he grew up on the Tom Emanski videos. 

I remember Bill James parsing LF-CF-RF like:

-if you can run but not throw, you're a LF

-if you can throw but not run, you're a RF

-you're a CF if you can do both.

Santander and Kjerstad are two RF profiles for one lineup for a minute.

I'd figured Cowser-Kjerstad one going was a decent Over/Under the highest value player Elias would trade, but after yesterday the Under is looking good.

Something like Kjerstad, EBJ, Povich and McDermott for Skubal could maybe still happen.

[Birdland in NC]

I will only say that the front office needs to figure out who’s going to be here long-term, and make a commitment to them with respectable contracts, and trade away the people who are not gonna be here long-term.  Short timers don’t work in any business.     

[banks703]

17 minutes ago, terpoh said:

How is Joey Ortiz a better SS than Gunnar, when Joey Ortiz isnt even playing SS for Milwaukee.

By their statcast page Gunnar is better in every defensive metric as well.

Joey was the best defender in the org. That's been well documented. When Adames moves on after this year, Joey will slide over to SS. 

I love me some SS Gunnar but Joey is the better defender. Would he have pushed Gunnar off of SS? That's not a decision that I have the power to make but he is in fact the better defender at the position. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

4 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

Organizational turmoil seems overstated, lol.

 

 

[terpoh]

Just now, banks703 said:

Joey was the best defender in the org. That's been well documented. When Adames moves on after this year, Joey will slide over to SS. 

I love me some SS Gunnar but Joey is the better defender. Would he have pushed Gunnar off of SS? That's not a decision that I have the power to make but he is in fact the better defender at the position. 

I guess we will have to wait and see, but I cant crown a guy as a better defender because he was thought to have been better in Bowie. 

[banks703]

4 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

I remember Bill James parsing LF-CF-RF like:

-if you can run but not throw, you're a LF

-if you can throw but not run, you're a RF

-you're a CF if you can do both.

Santander and Kjerstad are two RF profiles for one lineup for a minute.

I'd figured Cowser-Kjerstad one going was a decent Over/Under the highest value player Elias would trade, but after yesterday the Under is looking good.

Something like Kjerstad, EBJ, Povich and McDermott for Skubal could maybe still happen.

Bill James is pretty spot-on unless you're running out an outfield alignment in OPACY with the cavernous LF. If the regular OF going forward is a combo of HK, CC and Ant, I would flipflop Ant and HK to reduce the real estate that HK has to cover. 

 

I'd do HK, EBJ, Povich and McDermott for Skubal today but I don't think the Tigers would take that. 

[banks703]

1 minute ago, terpoh said:

I guess we will have to wait and see, but I cant crown a guy as a better defender because he was thought to have been better in Bowie. 

It's not a thought, it's what watching hundreds of innings of both of them showed us. Gunnar has blossomed into an excellent defender at the position, which is another reason that Joey was the odd-man out in the Gunnar, Mayo, JW, JH and Ortiz considerations. But he was (and unless he fell off a cliff at 25) the best defensive SS in the org. Gunnar certainly narrowed the gap but Joey still is better. Does that mean that he would have pushed Gunnar off of the position? I don't have the power to make that decision but he is the only guy in the org that had the chops to do so. 

[dtk9119]

Can someone please reset where all of this "turmoil" is documented/quoted? I just read Goon's article (which is where my impression was where this all started) and the article is a big fat nothing burger. The only thing I have seen/heard in the last 24 hrs that might be considered controversial was Hays telling Philly reporters that the Phillies have an even better chance of winning a WS than the Orioles (a true statement TBH). Some have brought up Hays's comments about an extension and how he didn't look "happy" when the young guys do something worth celebrating.. I hadn't even noticed that until it was brought up here.

I have issues w/ how Elias has done things such as slow rolling the promotion of the young guys and not offloading vets sooner. FWIW, he and Jeff Luhnow did the same thing here in Houston when their rebuild was ending. I remember the same clamoring back in the day "why aren't they bringing Springer up, why aren't they bringing Correa up etc etc." This is how the dude rolls. Its frustrating, but obviously in the end it worked out for them as an organization. As for the contract extensions, we have to remember who the owners were up until 6 months ago. My hope is that DR will start to spend and extend. Burnes being the TOP priority.

In the short term, something needs to be done about how this team is performing.. maybe it is the trade deadline, maybe it's the management/coaching (I am still not sold on Hyde and his decisions last night --Kjerstad playing LF and bringing in Kimbrel -- the latest examples), etc. Its definitely way past a "slump" at this point.

[terpoh]

10 minutes ago, banks703 said:

It's not a thought, it's what watching hundreds of innings of both of them showed us. Gunnar has blossomed into an excellent defender at the position, which is another reason that Joey was the odd-man out in the Gunnar, Mayo, JW, JH and Ortiz considerations. But he was (and unless he fell off a cliff at 25) the best defensive SS in the org. Gunnar certainly narrowed the gap but Joey still is better. Does that mean that he would have pushed Gunnar off of the position? I don't have the power to make that decision but he is the only guy in the org that had the chops to do so. 

LIke I said, until he proves that hes the best defender in the organization in Baltimore- I'm not crowning him as such. Clearly the Brewers agree or else they wouldve shifted Adames for him. 

[Roy Firestone]

4 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

They aren't going to talk about it.

I can't imagine Adley, for instance, going to the media to lobby for an extension.  It's very unprofessional.

Adley has a lot more on his mind than an extension anyway. He's in a horrible slump and needs to break out of it.