This is the kind of thing that drives me crazy

[sportsfan8703]

16 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Moises Chace.  Good stuff but can’t throw strikes.

Jackson Baumeister.   High draft pick.   Can’t throw strikes.

Within a month of being traded Chace gets bumped to AA, has the best start of his career, and all of a sudden Baumeister is a strike thrower.

13. Jackson Baumeister, RHP, Rays

Team: High-A Bowling Green (South Atlantic)
Age: 22

Why He’s Here: 1-0, 0.00, 7 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 11 SO

The Scoop: The Rays were two games above .500 at the end of July, but their decision to trade away big league talent seems like a reasonable one with a month of hindsight. Tampa Bay has slid to three games under .500, but they would need to have made a significant step forward to be contending for a wild card spot in a league where being 11 games above .500 earns the final spot. And picking up talents like Baumeister are a potentially useful payoff. Since becoming a Ray, Baumeister is 2-0, 1.13 with a 35-to-4 strikeout ratio in six appearances and 24 innings. (JC)

 

9. Moises Chace, RHP, Phillies

Team: Double-A Reading (Eastern)
Age: 21

Why He’s Here: 1-0, 0.00, 6 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 0 BB, 13 SO, 0 HR

The Scoop: The Phillies acquired Chace from the Orioles alongside Seth Johnson in exchange for Gregory Soto at the trade deadline. Chace has been very strong since joining the Phillies organization and threw his best start to date on Saturday. Chace tossed six scoreless innings allowing one hit, striking out 13 of 19 batters. After Chace allowed a hit to Rafael Flores with two outs in the bottom of the first he retired 16 consecutive batters to close his outing. Mixing a four-seam fastball at 94-96 mph, a low-80s sweeper and a low-80s changeup, Chace has three above-average shapes that all rate as above-average pitches per stuff+. (GP) 

 

Getting traded could’ve given them that extra something and a little chip on their shoulder. Don’t doubt what a little competitive edge can do for guys at these levels. 

Just that little bit of extra motivation and focus. 

We can point to Bowman, Webb, Coloumbe, Bautista, Cano, as guys we’ve turned around. 

[RZNJ]

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Getting traded could’ve given them that extra something and a little chip on their shoulder. Don’t doubt what a little competitive edge can do for guys at these levels. 

Just that little bit of extra motivation and focus. 

We can point to Bowman, Webb, Coloumbe, Bautista, Cano, as guys we’ve turned around. 

Besides the upper levels, mostly Norfolk, there haven’t  been many good stories or emerging prospects in the system this year.   Now, I finally see two pitchers I could get excited about a little and they’re not Oriole prospects anymore.   Call it a vent.   It bothers me.    I want to see guys in our system establishing themselves as legit prospects.   For the first time in the last few years, there really wasn’t much, if any, of that.

[ThomasTomasz]

We developed Danny Coulombe, Felix Bautista and Yennier Cano from nothing.  Multiples teams had their shot at Coulombe until he got to us.  For all of that work, we also lost out on Evan Phillips.  

You win some in the development game, and you lose some, but the important thing is to win more than you lose, which I think we do.  For all of the early returns on Chace and Baumeister with other teams, does it outweigh that Kyle Bradish was at that same level of prospect status (and maybe even a little less shiny) when we traded for him from LAA and developed him into a TORP?  

[RZNJ]

4 minutes ago, ThomasTomasz said:

We developed Danny Coulombe, Felix Bautista and Yennier Cano from nothing.  Multiples teams had their shot at Coulombe until he got to us.  For all of that work, we also lost out on Evan Phillips.  

You win some in the development game, and you lose some, but the important thing is to win more than you lose, which I think we do.  For all of the early returns on Chace and Baumeister with other teams, does it outweigh that Kyle Bradish was at that same level of prospect status (and maybe even a little less shiny) when we traded for him from LAA and developed him into a TORP?  

If we want to sustain what Elias has built we’re going to need that pipeline.   If you haven’t noticed there’s a gap.   We’ve bragged about our farm system and rightly so but after Mayo and Kjerstad graduate which could/should have happened this year it’s Basallo and then nothing.    There are no elite prospects from Bowie all the way down.

Will some top 100 type guys emerge?   I sure hope so.    They didn’t this year.   Not one.

[ThomasTomasz]

3 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

If we want to sustain what Elias has built we’re going to need that pipeline.   If you haven’t noticed there’s a gap.   We’ve bragged about our farm system and rightly so but after Mayo and Kjerstad graduate which could/should have happened this year it’s Basallo and then nothing.    There are no elite prospects from Bowie all the way down.

Will some top 100 type guys emerge?   I sure hope so.    They didn’t this year.   Not one.

It’s possible.  That’s always been the goal.  Over 20% of active MLB rosters come from the Caribbean and J2 free agency, and so far, only one notable prospect has made it this far in Basallo but we also have had a few of our original ones play in the high minors.  

Given all that we have done to get where we are, I will trust the process and even if you consider this year a hiccup year, many of the prospect outlets- especially the fantasy tilted ones that I follow- are still bullish on the Orioles organization.  Specifically, Prospects Live and actually some of the Baseball America guys since Geoff Pontes came from PL.  

[Sports Guy]

9 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

There was no spot for Stowers here.  I hope he's able to make the most of his shot in Miami.  He had a rough start, but things seem to be looking up for him there.

There definitely could have been a spot for him beyond this year.

[ThomasTomasz]

3 minutes ago, ThomasTomasz said:

It’s possible.  That’s always been the goal.  Over 20% of active MLB rosters come from the Caribbean and J2 free agency, and so far, only one notable prospect has made it this far in Basallo but we also have had a few of our original ones play in the high minors.  

Given all that we have done to get where we are, I will trust the process and even if you consider this year a hiccup year, many of the prospect outlets- especially the fantasy tilted ones that I follow- are still bullish on the Orioles organization.  Specifically, Prospects Live and actually some of the Baseball America guys since Geoff Pontes came from PL.  

Also speaking on PL, they have 18 Orioles on their top 500 list who have not made notable appearances in MLB.  If include those players, it’s actually 21.  For comparison, the Rays have 23 on their top 500, and the Dodgers have 24.  

[Just Regular]

The gap after Basallo is notable, but the lineup is also nearly impregnable once his Rookie Integration Taxes get paid.    

I don't know who out of Fabian-EBJ-Honeycutt will win out to succeed Cedric, but whoever can hit last, and there's always Austin Slater if they all fail.

I'm sticking to Glass Half Full on Kjerstad, and we'll see in a few weeks if he gets to go into the winter with nothing on the agenda but baseball.

Gerrit might not have to face Adley, Mayo, Holliday, Gunnar, Westburg, Cowser, "CF", Kjerstad and Basallo all this fall, but this is maybe the last fall that is the case, and maybe the only time Juan Soto is on his side.    Granted the injury gods will take whoever they want to take any given month.

[Osornot]

10 hours ago, HowAboutThat said:

Ummmm the broadcasters DO suck…

Thank you.

[24fps]

18 hours ago, yark14 said:

Favoring spin rates and velo over outcomes has it's consequences.  Just look at the number of our pitchers on the IL.

Not to mention our all-star third baseman.  Cuts both ways too.

[Tony-OH]

18 hours ago, EdwinRip said:

You would think this team is dead last in baseball when reading this thread.

You can be critical of the Orioles pitching drafting and development and still think the team is doing well and heading in the right direction. 

[Tony-OH]

19 hours ago, MCO'sFan said:

I don't think the SSS success of these two pitchers means anything when trying to evaluate the O's pitching development. Bradish was a 4th rounder whose development was predominately by the O's. Here is a guy from this year that the O's picked up and have done a seemingly good job of developing. Left-hander Tucker Davidson, an offseason waiver claim from the Royals, struck out eight in seven innings of two-run ball Wednesday against Jacksonville to continue a very good season in the Norfolk rotation. He has a 3.61 ERA, a 1.27 WHIP, and 94 strikeouts in 99 2/3 innings.

 

 

Do you really think anyone is basing their opinions ONLY on these two pitchers after they were traded?

It's valid to question the Orioles pitching drafting and development because they have never drafted and developed a major league pitcher and Elias has been drafting since 2019. 

The Orioles keep their pitchers on very strict pitch and innings counts, but still are having just as many injuries as any other minor league organization. These are just facts, not opinions.

[Tony-OH]

18 hours ago, Frobby said:

Also, it’s not like Baumeister and Chace were doing poorly with us.  They were doing pretty well, just not as well as they’ve done since they were traded.   It’s not like we didn’t know they were talented.  

I wonder if Tampa fans are wringing their hands over the fact that Eflin has a 1.95 ERA as an Oriole, or if Philly fans are bothered that Soto is now on a streak of 9 straight scoreless outings.   
 

But none of this was the point of RZNJs post. The fact though that the organization had to give him minor league pitching, to get major league pitching, goes to show the importance of having good minor league pitching prospects in the first place. 

 

[HowAboutThat]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

But none of this was the point of RZNJs post. The fact though that the organization had to give him minor league pitching, to get major league pitching, goes to show the importance of having good minor league pitching prospects in the first place. 

 

Exactly. If you have to surrender your few worthwhile pitching prospects in order to get something back that you need, doesn’t that indicate that the overall strategy is flawed?
 

i’m sure it’s way too early to think about next year‘s draft, but we’re going to have four choices in the first three rounds.

here’s hoping for fresh wisdom in those choices

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, HowAboutThat said:

Exactly. If you have to surrender your few worthwhile pitching prospects in order to get something back that you need, doesn’t that indicate that the overall strategy is flawed?
 

i’m sure it’s way too early to think about next year‘s draft, but we’re going to have four choices in the first three rounds.

here’s hoping for fresh wisdom in those choices

Some of us have been saying all along that the idea that all you have to do is draft bats and trade the surplus for pitching was overly simplistic.