Crowley:: Pie's not going to play regularly

[threedaysrest]

@rollie.

True enough, but it's picking the lesser of two evils. The Orioles release Pie and hope Reimold--who at times resembles Ted Williams or Ty Cobb and at other times can't hit at all--develops. Or, the Orioles bench Pie, order him to perform fielding drills, take extra BP, etc., and hope he stays sharp enough to serve as an off-the-bench/reserve player (when, in reality, he can be much more if given the proper opportunities against live major league pitching and on defense in in-game situations). Given that we essentially stole a player who was discussed as a highly sought return for Roberts, it's silly that the Orioles are so quick to relegate him to the bench, particularly in a season where nothing is at stake other than player development.

Now, in the midst of such a season, what does Felix Pie finding his way as a hitter and fielder hurt? Nothing. For those who advocate Reimold in place of Pie: why not let the man rake and terrorize AAA, prove he's consistent at the plate and in the field, and can remain healthy over an entire season? If he does these things and Pie, toward (or at) the end of the 2009 season hasn't shown enough progress, then fine, let the LF job be Reimold's to win. I just don't see the need to make hasty roster moves that can affect the Orioles for multiple seasons over a single month's performance, and that includes Reimold's so-called hot streak.

[RShack]

I don't know anything that everybody else doesn't, but it occurs to me that this might have less to do with the long term future of Pie and Reimold than it does with AM trying to give DT what DT thinks he needs right now. There's multiple layers to the situation, and AM's gotta look at all of them at once. So, if Crow is saying this might take a while, and if DT is telling AM that if AM won't give him the P's yet, then he at least needs more oomph at the bottom-of-the-order, well, if AM believes in his people, he's gotta do stuff to take care them, even if it's not exactly what he would prefer to do...

[rolliefingers]

@rollie.

True enough, but it's picking the lesser of two evils. The Orioles release Pie and hope Reimold--who at times resembles Ted Williams or Ty Cobb and at other times can't hit at all--develops. Or, the Orioles bench Pie, order him to perform fielding drills, take extra BP, etc., and hope he stays sharp enough to serve as an off-the-bench/reserve player (when, in reality, he can be much more if given the proper opportunities against live major league pitching and on defense in in-game situations). Given that we essentially stole a player who was discussed as a highly sought return for Roberts, it's silly that the Orioles are so quick to relegate him to the bench, particularly in a season where nothing is at stake other than player development.

Now, in the midst of such a season, what does Felix Pie finding his way as a hitter and fielder hurt? Nothing.

Clearly, you haven't been around for the seemingly hundreds of times I've made that very point over the past month. You're preaching to the converted, but to be fair, Reimold has really forced the issue with how well he's played, and Pie hasn't done himself any favors. If Pie were hitting even 20 points higher, and Reimold 20 points lower, it'd be considerably easier to keep Pie in the lineup. The O's are in a tough spot, I have to admit.

So, you choose the lesser of two evils. *shrug*

p.s. you know you can quote posts, right? As much as I love Twitter and all...

[Crazysilver03]

@rollie.

True enough, but it's picking the lesser of two evils. The Orioles release Pie and hope Reimold--who at times resembles Ted Williams or Ty Cobb and at other times can't hit at all--develops. Or, the Orioles bench Pie, order him to perform fielding drills, take extra BP, etc., and hope he stays sharp enough to serve as an off-the-bench/reserve player (when, in reality, he can be much more if given the proper opportunities against live major league pitching and on defense in in-game situations). Given that we essentially stole a player who was discussed as a highly sought return for Roberts, it's silly that the Orioles are so quick to relegate him to the bench, particularly in a season where nothing is at stake other than player development.

Now, in the midst of such a season, what does Felix Pie finding his way as a hitter and fielder hurt? Nothing.

First, there is a quote function. Much more useful than saying "@soandso."

Second, if Pie is struggling with the fundamentals during the game, let him work on them before the games and let him observe during the actual game. His development is still occurring, but he isnt quite yet a MLB starter.

Third, Reimold is one of our highly regarded prospects so he deserves his time to develop as well.

[threedaysrest]

Thanks for pointing out the quote function. I know it's there, but some habits are tough to break. I'll do better from here on.

Fair enough about Pie. I just don't want to see the Orioles hamper Pie's development in any way to ride the hot hand at AAA during a meaningless season (if that's what they're doing). As for placating Trembley, well, he may need to suffer a little like the entire fan base. The cavalry can't charge forth all at once, lest they be flattened by those NY and BOS and TB regiments. :laughlol:

It's also a nice problem to have with Pie (who has considerable talent and potential) and Reimold battling for LF. I'm skeptical at this point, but let's see what happens.

[Crazysilver03]

Thanks for pointing out the quote function. I know it's there, but some habits are tough to break. I'll do better from here on.

Fair enough about Pie. I just don't want to see the Orioles hamper Pie's development in any way to ride the hot hand at AAA during a meaningless season (if that's what they're doing). As for placating Trembley, well, he may need to suffer a little like the entire fan base. The cavalry can't charge forth all at once, lest they be flattened by those NY and BOS and TB regiments. :laughlol:

It's also a nice problem to have with Pie (who has considerable talent and potential) and Reimold battling for LF. I'm skeptical at this point, but let's see what happens.

To be fair about this point, it isn't like we have some AAAA talent at AAA that is tearing it up that we are calling up to take the place of Pie. If Reimold is called up, we are replacing Pie with an equally talented prospect and someone who is much closer to reaching his potential at this moment.

[rolliefingers]

To be fair about this point, it isn't like we have some AAAA talent at AAA that is tearing it up that we are calling up to take the place of Pie. If Reimold is called up, we are replacing Pie with an equally talented prospect and someone who is much closer to reaching his potential at this moment.

That's certainly arguable, but your overall point is correct - they are both ML-caliber players.

[RShack]

Does AM really need to go to Norfolk? Aren't Reimold's numbers enough to promote him to the majors?

He's going down there to get some face time, to find out what the staff at Norfolk really, really thinks. I'd guess it's probably about a few guys, not just one. Plus, maybe he wants to use his own eyeballs some.

[JayThomas]

@crazysilver:

The Orioles are handling Pie as the Cubs did: shuttling him from one role to another and not providing the necessary ABs and chances in the field for him to develop. One month of a player who's been unfairly maligned is not sufficient time to show much of anything. More, as a reserve player, he'll have fewer opportunities to develop himself in the field and at the plate through consistent playing time.

Whoa here. At some point the O's have a responsibility to pay for production, not on-the-job development. At the plate I fully agree that there are significant adjustments to be made when moving to the majors. Those adjustments are very difficult to simulate.

However, we should not be paying for and suffering through on-the-job 'opportunities to develop himself in the field'. Pie, like millions of kids throughout the history of baseball, can go out in the offseason and shag flies and see the ball in motion and learn to take routes and learn to field while hustling full tilt. There is no rationale at all for accommodating Pie in any way in terms of 'developing' in the outfield. In fact, his prowess in the field is the rationale that most people have offered for suffering through his learning curve at the plate.

[Boston Dave]

I am disappointed that Pie has not looked better, but thems the breaks. Fact of the matter is what this team does not have is a credible 4th OFer to give a blow to Jones or Markakis. We know Pie can do CF; if he can cover RF as well great, if not Reimold can slide over when Markakis needs a rest. Even if Pie is not the guy in LF, he improves the bench even when not starting.

Roberts

Jones

Wieters

Markakis

Huff

Reimold

Scott

Mora

Itszuris

With Pie, Zaun, Wigginton and Andino on the bench is a huge upgrade without doing much at all. Pie goes to winter ball, works on some things, a trade or two, and this whole thing can look pretty sweet by next March.

[SteveA]

Tough break. I think they should have at least waited until Pie's unlucky numbers normalized to get a better idea of what they had. I hope he still gets some playing time.

That said, I'm looking forward to seeing Reimold. I'm not at all interested in watching Montanez play every day.

There's an assumption implicit in this post, and in any other post decrying the sample size of at bats that Pie was allowed to accumulate before giving up on him (or "downgrading his opportunity").

The assumption is that he is being judged solely and completely on the NUMBERS he has put up. Obviously, if that were true, the sample size is too small for the numbers to be meaningful.

But the stats he puts up on the board are far from the only thing he is being judged on. The Orioles have an entire coaching staff made up of lifetime baseball professionals, plus scouts and front office personnel, who are looking at Pie and judging his coachability, his ability to make adjustments, his specific strengths and weaknesses against different pitches, different types of pitchers, etc., and whether there seems to be improvement in the weak areas, his attitude, and all the other things that can determine what type of player he can be in the major leagues. I would suspect he is being judged on the sum total of stuff I mention in this paragraph moreso than simply by his numbers in the sample size of plate appearances that he has.

Now I Know I am nowhere near as astute a baseball observer as anyone who makes a living in the game, or even as many posters on this board. But from what I have seen and observed, it would not shock me to hear that Pie has come up wanting in many of those areas I mention.

To sit back and scream "unfair sample size!!!" is to assume that the numbers are the sole, or major, thing that he is being judged on....and I don't think that is the case.

[UMDTerrapins]

I'd really like to give Lou 4-5 games a week for a few weeks. Reimold will be up soon and that's a good thing. But if it works out like we hope an Reimold succeeds, this is our last chance to give Montanez an opportunity to prove he's a ML regular. I am positive letting him get away from the organization will be a mistake.

[utvolzac]

This makes zero sense. Why bother trading for Pie in the first place if you were only going to give him a month?

Its not like Pie is costing this team wins. They are still losing when Pie is on the bench. Give the guy half a season to sink or swim at the MLB level. If he doesn't produce or doesn't show signs of improvement, then pull the plug. Its way too early.

Stashing him on the bench does zero to help his development. Pie should have been handed LF until July and only sat against tough lefties. Having him in LF full time is not going to make or break this season, but it could prove worth while over the next few years.

2009 is a wash regardless what they do with LF. Everybody knew that coming into the season. We aren't going to be competitive until the young pitching is ready anyway. This should be a developmental year.

[Can_of_corn]

This makes zero sense. Why bother trading for Pie in the first place if you were only going to give him a month?

Its not like Pie is costing this team wins. They are still losing when Pie is on the bench. Give the guy half a season to sink or swim at the MLB level. If he doesn't produce or doesn't show signs of improvement, then pull the plug. Its way too early.

Stashing him on the bench does zero to help his development. Pie should have been handed LF until July and only sat against tough lefties. Having him in LF full time is not going to make or break this season, but it could prove worth while over the next few years.

2009 is a wash regardless what they do with LF. Everybody knew that coming into the season. We aren't going to be competitive until the young pitching is ready anyway. This should be a developmental year.

1- Maybe they are seeing something with Pie beyond the lack of offense, defense, and baserunning acumen that we fans are seeing. They do have a lot closer contact with the lad then we do.

2- Being able to work with Shelby and Crow could very well help his development even if he isn't playing.

3- Last time I checked the O's had a prospect at Norfolk that could use some developmental time in the big leagues. I do not think that Pie is going to be benched so Scott and Freel will get more at bats.

[TonySoprano]

Does AM really need to go to Norfolk? Aren't Reimold's numbers enough to promote him to the majors?

I don't get the whole sideshow. Top scouts and MacPhail have to see it for themselves? The feedback from the coaches at Norfolk isn't enough. Who knows, maybe they are waiting to call-up Wieters until Angelos has time on his calendar to see him in person.