Dinner with Flanny

[TonySoprano]

Konerko: "Hey, Mike... listen, I'm sorry... but... I think I'm gonna stay in Chicago..."

Flanagan: "Oh, no, don't do that! We've got the best offer on the table. We want you in Baltimore *more* than anybody else wants you..."

Konerko: "Yeah, well... I know your offer is top-notch... and I understand what you're trying to build there... but I spent a couple days reading the OH site, and I gotta tell you... your fans hate you, hate the team, hate the owner, hate everything... they even want you to trade Tejada away... it's just not worth it to me... I don't want to walk into that kind of fan atmosphere... I'd rather stay here and do without the extra $5 million."

Flanagan: "I understand, but let's talk about this for a minute..."

Konerko: "Sorry, Mike, but I'd rather not... money is money, but baseball is what I love... and I just don't need that kind of crap. But I really do appreciate your offer, and I wish you the best of luck... and, hey, listen... I was talking to Conine the other day... he said he liked it there just fine... maybe you should give him a call..."

I guess you haven't read any other fan boards such as Sons of Sam Horn. It's much like this one, and it became national news when Schilling read it before he went to the Red Sox. Also, the fans here don't "hate everything." What they wanted was the team to do like the owner promised, sign a big bat like Konerko instead of dropping waaaaaaaay down to Conine as the fallback.

[OrioleWay27]

This whole development strikes me as odd, and I've never heard of a front office selecting fans off a message board to have a question and answer session over dinner.

With that being said, it's definitely a privelege for the posters who were selected to attend.

I find much of what has been shared to be interesting, but I'm not sure what Flanagan's intentions and goals were in getting people together in such a manner. I think it says that the FO is commited to its fans, but unfortunately it is obvious that ownership is NOT. Hence, all I can say is that there is an obvious disconnect with the front office and Peter Angelos, which is bad news for ever fielding a contending team.

Think about it: Angelos never appears in public, never addresses his paying fan base, and rarely talk to the players on the team he owns (not saying he should, but it's another case in point). Flanagan and his staff seem to take the opposite approach, when they could easily ignore their customers/fans. This tells me that the Front Office has their hands tied and is in an unenviable position of improving a team with little help from its owner.

I am concerned that the owner is not a focal point in our discussions. He runs the most important side of the baseball operations, which is spending money. Otherwise, Melvin Mora's contract would have been taken care of by now. It's incredible that Angelos manages to stay a shadowy figure when he is the most important variable in the equation when it comes to fielding a winning team. We could have the best baseball people in the world, but it will be tough to win coming out of a division with the Yankees and Red Sox AND an owner who is risk-averse.

Kudos to Flanagan and all involved, I admire their hard work and the fact they care about the fans. But, things aren't looking good in terms of ownership, and I fear we could be stuck with a losing franchise for years to come.

[boogidownoriole]

I think this thread needs to go into the classics thread.

[ScottieBaseball]

This whole development strikes me as odd, and I've never heard of a front office selecting fans off a message board to have a question and answer session over dinner.

With that being said, it's definitely a privelege for the posters who were selected to attend.

I find much of what has been shared to be interesting, but I'm not sure what Flanagan's intentions and goals were in getting people together in such a manner. I think it says that the FO is commited to its fans, but unfortunately it is obvious that ownership is NOT. Hence, all I can say is that there is an obvious disconnect with the front office and Peter Angelos, which is bad news for ever fielding a contending team.

Think about it: Angelos never appears in public, never addresses his paying fan base, and rarely talk to the players on the team he owns (not saying he should, but it's another case in point). Flanagan and his staff seem to take the opposite approach, when they could easily ignore their customers/fans. This tells me that the Front Office has their hands tied and is in an unenviable position of improving a team with little help from its owner.

I am concerned that the owner is not a focal point in our discussions. He runs the most important side of the baseball operations, which is spending money. Otherwise, Melvin Mora's contract would have been taken care of by now. It's incredible that Angelos manages to stay a shadowy figure when he is the most important variable in the equation when it comes to fielding a winning team. We could have the best baseball people in the world, but it will be tough to win coming out of a division with the Yankees and Red Sox AND an owner who is risk-averse.

Kudos to Flanagan and all involved, I admire their hard work and the fact they care about the fans. But, things aren't looking good in terms of ownership, and I fear we could be stuck with a losing franchise for years to come.

The owner's not the focal point in this discussion because the raw truth is we really have few facts to go on. All we can do is speculate.

I'm no psychologist by any means, but I can't help but draw the conclusion that, by staying out of the public eye and the lockerroom, Mr. Angelos feels as though it keeps him from appearing to be a meddling owner. Beyond that, he's the owner of a franchise that hasn't had a winning season in almost a decade. How or why that came to be is as open to debate as the chicken/egg discussion.

[rolliefingers]

Wait...there were *actual* journalists there, too? Can someone please make a rough list of how many people were at this dinner and who they were?

I have:

Witchy

Mackus

Harv

Baroquen

plus Flanny, Mrs. Flanny () and their friend?

Who else?

[jim busby]

I think the posters that were invited all constribute valuable opinions and I enjoy reading their posts. That being said, they are not journalists! If they are, that makes everyone that owns a computer a journalist. Flanny was not meeting with a couple of beat writters that travel with the team and become a defacto part of the O's family. There is no "off the record" when talking with random fans.

I disagree, 83.

I think that "everyone that owns a computer" is, in fact, a "journalist," provided he or she knows how to type and send a message.

Not everyone is a professional journalist, of course, but in the broad sense, a "journalist" is anyone who writes and distributes his or her writing.

The proliferation of blogs, which range from the maniacal to the sublime, proves you can stretch the term "journalistic" to preposterous extremes. (I'm not implying any of the worthy OH representatives at the dinner are at the negative extreme. The ones who have posted today are thoughtful, thorough and appropriately inquisitive.)

When I first read that the Flannys had asked for something not to be revealed, I, like you, recoiled.

But then I thought about it and realized that, in the interest of being cooperative, Flanny probably either: (1) wanted to show he trusted the folks, so he leaked them a little insider stuff that he probably should have kept to himself; or (2) said more than he intended to, then asked a favor of his guests.

In either case, I see no harm in that. The fact he spoke at all to such a group is, in my opinion, a welcome step.

Technically, of course, you're correct in saying that when a source is speaking to a group of people who are not professional reporters or journalists, the source isn't going to have the same ground rules as he or she would when speaking to the professionals.

In other words, any of the group could reveal what Flanny said, and Flanny would have no grounds upon which to protest.

And, of course, I (and others) no doubt would love to hear what that hush-hush conversation was about.

But I think trust is the key word here. Flanny asked them to keep something quiet, he is trusting them to do so, and they're paying back that trust.

[ScottieBaseball]

Wait...there were *actual* journalists there, too? Can someone please make a rough list of how many people were at this dinner and who they were?

I have:

Witchy

Mackus

Harv

Baroquen

plus Flanny, Mrs. Flanny () and their friend?

Who else?

If you're referring to my mention of journalists I meant on this message board. Specifically, I was speaking of PaulFolk who is (I believe) a freelance writer. The radio personality I referred to was John Domen who hosts an on-air show in Delaware. I'm not sure if either of them attended the dinner.

[Mackus]

Wait...there were *actual* journalists there, too? Can someone please make a rough list of how many people were at this dinner and who they were?

I have:

Witchy

Mackus

Harv

Baroquen

plus Flanny, Mrs. Flanny () and their friend?

Who else?

The 5 you mentioned plus some posters from SunSpot. Helloharv posts on both boards and grabbed a few people from each to come along.

[rolliefingers]

The 5 you mentioned plus some posters from SunSpot. Helloharv posts on both boards and grabbed a few people from each to come along.

Gotcha, OK. Just a little confused for a moment.

[Cokeman]

Originally posted by Witchy Chick

There was one specific instance and one specific situation that was discussed where we were asked not to share the details.

Pay the Man!

[helloharv]

***I can see how it would be so frustrating being in an important person of a company and everything you say is twisted and turned to make it look however the person on the other end wants to view it.***

There was no special handshake to enter or leave the room like some seem to think. He only mentioned one thing that he didn't want us to repeat.Most of you should understand that. Can you imagine a player reading about what his GM said about him on a message board BEFORE he even heard it himself.

Why don't the "insiders" on this board reveal their sources if it is no big deal?Of course people need to protect some information.

**One big issue thast hasn't been mentioned yet is insurance on contracts...

Some teams do not take out insurance on large contracts.Example - Player A gets offered 5/55 from two teams. The one team has alot of money (They can handle the contract due to the fact they are under the debt-service rule) but the other team really is paying approx 2 million per year in insurance making it a 5/65 deal for the team not the player.

Someone asked who else was at the dinner. thinking_man/dude/pitbull/HenryS all from Sunspot. If you want to read ALOT more comments from what they had to say go check out that crazy thread!!!

[Mackus]

I don't buy the insurance thing. The people (teams) who have the most money are the ones who can afford the insurance.

Meaning, any team, not offering insurance is doing so because they can't afford it and are trying to cut corners.

You've got this completely backwards.

The teams that don't get insurance are the ones that can afford to eat the player's salary if they get hurt.

The lower-market teams have to pay for insurance because if the player gets hurt and you have to eat $10M+, it will literally cripple the franchise.

[helloharv]

Where has that happened?

I don't buy the insurance thing. The people (teams) who have the most money are the ones who can afford the insurance.

Meaning, any team, not offering insurance is doing so because they can't afford it and are trying to cut corners.

Actually you have it wrong. Some teams that have plenty of money...don't even buy the insurance. The teams that can't absord 50 million from a player going down, Need insurance.

[helloharv]

Mackus - We posted that at the exact same time :002_ssmile:

[Ohfan67]

Actually you have it wrong. Some teams that have plenty of money...don't even buy the insurance. The teams that can't absord 50 million from a player going down, Need insurance.

Do you guys have any data to back this up? It is hard to believe that Tampa Bay is more likely to insure a contract than Boston or New York. Business' insure their expensive assets to reduce their risk. In the "real" world companies and individuals that can afford insurance get it, those who can't don't.

I also think there's another invalid point involving this whole insurance thing. When you say "Some teams that have plenty of money" what teams are you talking about? The Yankees, Boston, and ????. Maybe the Mets and LA teams? There are only a couple of teams (maybe really only one or two) that could absorb a huge contract due to injury without it seriously affecting their budget. I do not expect the Orioles to compete financially with the Yankees, Mets, Boston, etc., but I do expect (or at least hope and pray!) that they will compete with Minnesota, Oakland, Toronto, Cleveland, etc. This insurance thing is smoke and mirrors or perhaps reflects the Organization's inability to deal with risk (i.e., Angelos).