MacPhail on Hobgood

[JTrea81]

Honestly, I could care less how you think we are "perceived." The team was in the top 10 in terms of signing bonuses paid each of the last two years, and our farm system is now ranked in the top 10 after several consecutive good drafts. By my count, in 2009-10 the system will have sent 9 good prospects to the majors, at least (Wieters, Reimold, Snyder, Bergesen, Berken, Hernandez, Tillman, Matusz). That's outstanding by any measure.

But what place are we in our division? How many teams are better than us?

We can't just be outstanding. We have to be unreal if we are going to have all homegrown talent without major premium FA acquisitions.

Premium talent alone will win this division. The Orioles can't get enough into their system, and we certainly can't afford to pass on any in the draft for $ reasons.

And with the graduation of Wieters and Reimold to the majors, our system is no longer top 10.

Anyway, this thread has turned into another "attack JTrea" thread because I said something contrary to the "MacPhail knows all" mantra. Moose I haven't forgotten about your post and I'll elaborate in another thread, but I've got to gather the info all together first and I didn't want this thread to continue down this path...

[Moose Milligan]

But what place are we in our division? How many teams are better than us?

We can't just be outstanding. We have to be unreal if we are going to have all homegrown talent without major premium FA acquisitions.

Premium talent alone will win this division. The Orioles can't get enough into their system, and we certainly can't afford to pass on any in the draft for $ reasons.

And with the graduation of Wieters and Reimold to the majors, our system is no longer top 10.

Ahem...

Second, show me where Tampa and Oakland routinely pay over slot to sign picks. I'm not looking for an example here or there, I want you to show me where they make a habit out of it on a yearly basis for multiple picks.

Still waiting.

Where have Tampa, Oakland and others made a habit out of going over slot to sign picks? Please show me documentation where they do this on a yearly basis for multiple draft picks.

Thanks.

[Frobby]

But what place are we in our division? How many teams are better than us?

We can't just be outstanding. We have to be unreal if we are going to have all homegrown talent without major premium FA acquisitions.

Premium talent alone will win this division. The Orioles can't get enough into their system, and we certainly can't afford to pass on any in the draft for $ reasons.

And with the graduation of Wieters and Reimold to the majors, our system is no longer top 10.

Who knows if we'll be in the top 10 or not? I'd say it depends on how many of the Big 3 are still considered prospects when the year ends.

My point wasn't that we can afford to be cheap. My point is that we have a very good track record the last few years, and if Joe Jordan thinks Matt Hobgood is a better pick than Tyler Matzek or whoever, I really couldn't care less if you think others perceive us as being cheap. In other words, I think Joe Jordan knows vastly more about how to conduct a successful draft than you do, and I think your perception that MacPhail is preventing him from drafting who he wants due to financial reasons is utter hogwash.

[JTrea81]

Who knows if we'll be in the top 10 or not? I'd say it depends on how many of the Big 3 are still considered prospects when the year ends.

My point wasn't that we can afford to be cheap. My point is that we have a very good track record the last few years, and if Joe Jordan thinks Matt Hobgood is a better pick than Tyler Matzek or whoever, I really couldn't care less if you think others perceive us as being cheap. In other words, I think Joe Jordan knows vastly more about how to conduct a successful draft than you do, and I think your perception that MacPhail is preventing him from drafting who he wants due to financial reasons is utter hogwash.

You can't possibly believe that budget doesn't enter into Joe Jordan's draft process at all. MacPhail definitely gives him a budget to work with and that will limit who he can draft. What I am saying is that I would like to see what Jordan could do without financial constraints.

[J.D.]

You can't possibly believe that budget doesn't enter into Joe Jordan's draft process at all. MacPhail definitely gives him a budget to work with and that will limit who he can draft. What I am saying is that I would like to see what Jordan could do without financial constraints.

You can't possibly believe that MacPhail decides how much of Angelos' money he can spend. MacPhail doesn't give anyone a budget. If anything, Angelos tells MacPhail what he can spend.

[JTrea81]

You can't possibly believe that MacPhail decides how much of Angelos' money he can spend. MacPhail doesn't give anyone a budget. If anything, Angelos tells MacPhail what he can spend.

That's exactly what I think. What is MacPhail's job then if he can't dictate how to spend the money budgeted for Baseball Operations?

You seriously think Angelos spends the time to break out the budget into each area of scouting, draft, FA signings? MacPhail is the keeper of Angelos' checkbook.

We didn't spend anything close to what we could in FA signings, so why not allocate more money to the draft and give Jordan a larger budget to work with?

[J.D.]

That's exactly what I think. What is MacPhail's job then if he can't dictate how to spend the money budgeted for Baseball Operations?

You seriously think Angelos spends the time to break out the budget into each area of scouting, draft, FA signings? MacPhail is the keeper of Angelos' checkbook.

We didn't spend anything close to what we could in FA signings, so why not allocate more money to the draft and give Jordan a larger budget to work with?

You know what? Let's just stop here. We're not even on the original topic anymore, you're driving me gradually more insane, and I'm just done arguing about you're persistently inaccurate, overblown, and dogged beliefs and theories on why the front office is terrible and how we're so clearly cheapskates. I'm done with this conversation. I knew it would end up here five hours ago when I jumped into it.

[JTrea81]

You know what? Let's just stop here. We're not even on the original topic anymore, you're driving me gradually more insane, and I'm just done arguing about you're persistently inaccurate, overblown, and dogged beliefs and theories on why the front office is terrible and how we're so clearly cheapskates. I'm done with this conversation. I knew it would end up here five hours ago when I jumped into it.

Ah I see it's easier to rehash what others have said and pile on some more then to have a thoughtful rebuttal. Well done...

[J.D.]

Ah I see it's easier to rehash what others have said and pile on some more then to have a thoughtful rebuttal. Well done...

Yeah, imagine that. I happen to agree with what just about everyone in this thread is saying in response to your antics.

And that? Well, that's pretty much as easy as taking a ridiculous stance, digging a trench, and repeating it in every discussion that comes along.

I do promise you, though, that this'll be the last minute I waste replying to one of your posts. Whether you care about that or not doesn't concern me in the least.

[Hank Scorpio]

Ah I see it's easier to rehash what others have said and pile on some more then to have a thoughtful rebuttal. Well done...

Silly Trea, all you DO is rehash what others have said. :laughlol:

Have you ever seen Good Will Hunting? Here's what I see, here :

Trea: Well, as a matter of fact, I won't, because MacPhail drastically underestimates the impact of social -

McNulty: MacPhail drastically underestimates the impact of a big bat predicated upon wealth, especially Angelos' wealth"? You got that from John Manuel, "Analyzing the 2009 Draft," page 98, right? Yeah, I read that too. Were you gonna plagiarize the whole thing for us? Do you have any thoughts of your own on this matter? Or do you, is that your thing, you come into a bar, read some obscure passage and then pretend - you pawn it off as your own, as your own idea just to impress some girls, embarrass my friend?

Trea: [looks down in shame]

McNulty: See, the sad thing about a guy like you is, in 50 years you're gonna start doin' some thinkin' on your own and you're going to come up with the fact that there are two certainties in life: one, don't do that, and two, you dropped $99 bucks on a Baseball America subcription when you could have actually watched these kids play and formulated some opinions of your own. You know, done some scouting.

[McNulty]

Do you like apples Sly?

[JTrea81]

I didn't realize one had to be a scout on here to have a valid opinion. Unfortunately I have a job and can't afford the time nor the money to fly around the country to look at these kids and I rely on the reports of others who can. That's why they are paid to do what they do.

Could Joe Jordan be right and everybody else be wrong? Yes it's possible, but there's also a possiblity that Jordan could be wrong as well. And that idea is just blasphemy around here.

Look at Smoak/Posey/Beckham vs. Matusz for instance. You now couldn't trade Matusz to get any of those guys straight up.

As I've said before, just because the Orioles do something, doesn't mean that it is right. And people have the right to question them.

[tywright]

I didn't realize one had to be a scout on here to have a valid opinion. Unfortunately I have a job and can't afford the time nor the money to fly around the country to look at these kids and I rely on the reports of others who can. That's why they are paid to do what they do.

Could Joe Jordan be right and everybody else be wrong? Yes it's possible, but there's also a possiblity that Jordan could be wrong as well. And that idea is just blasphemy around here.

Look at Smoak/Posey/Beckham vs. Matusz for instance. You now couldn't trade Matusz to get any of those guys straight up.

As I've said before, just because the Orioles do something, doesn't mean that it is right. And people have the right to question them.

Well that's mainly due to the teams that own those players not in desperate need of top pitching talent. Texas is loaded with pitchers and San Fran has Bumgarner and Alderson. Now Beckham for Matusz could be doable for the Chisox.

[waroriole]

Ahem...

Still waiting.

Where have Tampa, Oakland and others made a habit out of going over slot to sign picks? Please show me documentation where they do this on a yearly basis for multiple draft picks.

Thanks.

I would like to know the answer to this too. Interesting how he has responded to every other post but this one.

[Orioles West]

I didn't realize one had to be a scout on here to have a valid opinion. Unfortunately I have a job and can't afford the time nor the money to fly around the country to look at these kids and I rely on the reports of others who can. That's why they are paid to do what they do.

Could Joe Jordan be right and everybody else be wrong? Yes it's possible, but there's also a possiblity that Jordan could be wrong as well. And that idea is just blasphemy around here.

Look at Smoak/Posey/Beckham vs. Matusz for instance. You now couldn't trade Matusz to get any of those guys straight up.

As I've said before, just because the Orioles do something, doesn't mean that it is right. And people have the right to question them.

A lot of folks question the O's around here, it really is part of being a fan, I don't have much of a problem with that. I think the problems pop up for any of us here who post opinion as fact. Almost all of us who do that here get called out when assumptions are posted as absolutes.

We can find articles about players, but no one knows how well or even if those players will contribute at the MLB level.

We can assume a player was taken over budget issues, but we don't know the Orioles exact budget for any of it. Four million dollars to burn? I'm not even sure the Yankees would start a bonfire with that much money in this economy.

Yes, we can have opinions on scouting, but I'm not going to trust ANY of those opinions over a person who does the job full time. It is a bit like asking a pharmacist an opinion about my car engine.

In that sense, not all opinions are created equal, and uninformed opinions will generally be criticized in this forum.

And finally, back to Matzek, I don't know if they are using college as a bargaining ploy or not, but in an interview with the Denver Post, his family has expressed they would rather see their son go to school for at least a couple of years. It may not be a money issue at all. I guess we will find out for sure by the end of the summer. But we don't know for sure why 10 teams passed on him. Not yet anyway.

-Don