MacPhail on Hobgood

[Mizerooskie]

There's your evidence. MacPhail doesn't want to have to recruit the player to play for the Orioles. Well I'm sorry, but the Orioles especially in the AL East may have to do some actual recruiting to get top talent here. That is MacPhail's job. The Orioles can't sell themselves, even to a HS kid.

There's a reason you have to beg. It's called the player has talent and wants to be compensated for it and would rather get a college education than possibly be stuck on a losing franchise.

Signable does not necessarily = BPA. The Orioles needed to take the BPA and the jury is certainly out if Hobgood was that...

This is just absurd on so many levels. How on Earth is that evidence? He explicitly stated it wasn't a signability pick. The scouts loved Hobgood, so AM picked him. Physical talent is not the whole picture when evaluating a player. Hobgood's makeup is off the charts.

I agree with McPhail that you shouldn't have to beg. It's a draft, not free agency. It's "repugnant" that the agents have turned it into Free Agency-lite.

[BringBackMagic]

There's your evidence. MacPhail doesn't want to have to recruit the player to play for the Orioles. Well I'm sorry, but the Orioles especially in the AL East may have to do some actual recruiting to get top talent here. That is MacPhail's job. The Orioles can't sell themselves, even to a HS kid.

There's a reason you have to beg. It's called the player has talent and wants to be compensated for it and would rather get a college education than possibly be stuck on a losing franchise.

Signable does not necessarily = BPA. The Orioles needed to take the BPA and the jury is certainly out if Hobgood was that...

Like I already said. You are capable of taking any line and twisting it to say what you want it to say. It's almost like dealing with my ex-girlfriend. And unless your name is Krysten, I don't think I ever dated you. But your ability to twist things people say into something they don't mean is astounding.

With that line McPhail is simply stating that many times headcases get the benefit of the doubt as being more talented.

If we're trying to twist it, I see it could be taken in one of two ways.

First, he could be saying that when talent is equal, taking the guy that wants to be there is the obvious choice, which could be the situation here. If Hobgood is on the O's board as an A prospect that wants to sign and Wheeler is an A prospect that needs $4.5 mil to sign and Matzek is an A prospect that needs $7 mil to sign, then Hobgood is the logical selection.

Second, he could be drawing a correlation to the fact that publications like BA that put players in the public eye and hype them, making ridiculous comparisons like Tyler Matzek is going to be like Brian Matusz who is going to be like Cole Hamels fills these players' heads with grandeur and suddenly they want money that they really don't deserve.

In my opinion, I'll take Joe Jordan's rankings ahead of BAs.

[sector7g]

I think the pick is perceived that way because, prior to the draft, scouting publications such as BA didn't rank Hobgood as a top 5 pick, or even a top 10. So, that creates the perception that signability was a factor. It's not a case of outsiders downgrading him because he wasn't viewed as a difficult sign, it's a case of outsiders not ranking him that highly to begin with.

Joe Jordan thinks differently, and that's fine with me. I believe 100% that he went with Hobgood because he thought he was the best player available, and not because he was an easy sign. If outsiders have a different perception, I don't really care.

Interestingly Callis has since said he believes they (BA) underated Hobgood before the draft.

[WebLink21]

The guy wasn't held in high regard due to the fact as he wasn't as talented as a couple of the other pitchers going after him according to most scouts. Matzek was the most talented pitcher in the draft after Strasburg and that is why he wants the most money.

If anything this shows that MacPhail is more concerned about signablility than having the most talent, and that is not a good thing. I think he's annoyed because suddenly people are calling him on his frugality and they should given the resources this club has at its disposal.

At worst had we not signed our pick, we would have had the 6th pick in the draft next year. We didn't have to draft a signability pick.

[Florida_Osfan]

There's your evidence. MacPhail doesn't want to have to recruit the player to play for the Orioles. Well I'm sorry, but the Orioles especially in the AL East may have to do some actual recruiting to get top talent here. That is MacPhail's job. The Orioles can't sell themselves, even to a HS kid.

There's a reason you have to beg. It's called the player has talent and wants to be compensated for it and would rather get a college education than possibly be stuck on a losing franchise.

Signable does not necessarily = BPA. The Orioles needed to take the BPA and the jury is certainly out if Hobgood was that...

Dude, this isn't evidence. Seriously, it isn't even in the realm of evidence. You're inferring way beyond provable reason. Hobgood is top talent. And MacPhail isn't being literal about "begging" players to come, he's simply making a point that many HS pitchers, like Matzek, were reported to be exaggerated in their demands. Who wants that mess? Why risk passing on one first round talent to get a guy another guy who is more interested in getting the mega-deal than joining a franchise? I think you twisted his words to suit your point. And that's the fallacy, not the evidence.

Oh, and why is the jury out on Hobgood but not on Matzek? Isn't that a double-standard?

If you're unwilling to believe that a guy projected to be taken mid-first round is just as talented as good as any guy in the top 5, then see the drafting history of teams like the Red Sox. When is the last time they drafted in the top 10? Yet they draft and develop good players. Hobgood has the skill set and makeup to be a TOR starter. Whether he's taken 5, 15, or 25 does not define his future. You, like many, are obsessed with the expert's take rather than the expert opinion of JJ. That's bias.

And you're not addressing your other biases, either. You're slanted toward the O's as villain. That seems to be the motif of your posts, and it's part of the reason you are so frequently challenged--not because you have "different" opinions.

[Flip217]

Jeebus, JTrea, you sound more like OldFan every time I read one of your posts. It's almost time for an intervention.

[J.D.]

There's your evidence. MacPhail doesn't want to have to recruit the player to play for the Orioles. Well I'm sorry, but the Orioles especially in the AL East may have to do some actual recruiting to get top talent here. That is MacPhail's job. The Orioles can't sell themselves, even to a HS kid.

There's a reason you have to beg. It's called the player has talent and wants to be compensated for it and would rather get a college education than possibly be stuck on a losing franchise.

Signable does not necessarily = BPA. The Orioles needed to take the BPA and the jury is certainly out if Hobgood was that...

Clearly, that jury isn't out for you. You've already made up your mind that Hobgood wasn't in the ballpark of being the best player available, and somehow us choosing him meant that we "can't sell ourselves to a high-school kid," or that we're somehow too lazy to recruit.

I'm sure other people will have much nicer ways to point out how ridiculous you're being right now, so I'll leave it up to them. It's absolutely repugnant that you look for anything and everything to attack and harp on. When you have an agenda, there's no use or point even having a debate or discussion to the contrary any longer.

[Jimbo81]

Jeebus, JTrea, you sound more like OldFan every time I read one of your posts. It's almost time for an intervention.

That is why I have them both on Ignore.:scratchchinhmm:

After actually doing my own reseach on Hobgood I think it was a good pick. He is a great character guy with just about as much upside as the rest of the prep arms.

BTW, Matzek interview during the draft turned me off on him and, Grant Green just didn't seem worth it to me.

[tywright]

Dan Connolly wrote this last year

This year [2008], the Orioles signed 36 of 50 draft picks (and five nondrafted free agents) for a total of $6.9 million in bonuses, the 10th-highest in the majors. They would have been in the top seven had they signed a couple of high school pitchers - including Gaithersburg High’s Kevin Brady - who decided at last week’s deadline to attend college.

Last year[2007], the Orioles’ $7.7 million in signing bonuses was the most spent in the league. According to Baseball America, in the previous four years, the Orioles didn’t crack the top 10 and were last in 2004.

I look forward to a 3rd consecutive year we are in the top 10 in signing bonuses, especially when they sign Harris, Berry, Hoppy, and Coffey.

[QBsILLEST1]

Clearly, that jury isn't out for you. You've already made up your mind that Hobgood wasn't in the ballpark of being the best player available, and somehow us choosing him meant that we "can't sell ourselves to a high-school kid," or that we're somehow too lazy to recruit.

I'm sure other people will have much nicer ways to point out how ridiculous you're being right now, so I'll leave it up to them. It's absolutely repugnant that you look for anything and everything to attack and harp on. When you have an agenda, there's no use or point even having a debate or discussion to the contrary any longer.

Trea, whats your profession? Whatever it is that you do, wouldnt you hate it if someone with absolutely no knowledge of your job comes up to you one day and tries to tell you how to do your job? This is what you do, on a near daily basis here.

So aside from BA's rankings, what is your evidence that he wasnt the BPA? What is it that lags so far behind Matzek, Miller, Purke, Turner and Wheeler? I really want to know your answer to this.....

[JTrea81]

See the thing with Hobgood is that it's fine if Jordan thought he was the BPA, that's his call. But it's the fact that MacPhail has such a negative attitude toward paying for premium talent that gets to me. And you've got to think when counseled in case of a tie of course he will tell Jordan to go with the more signable pick despite the difference in talent, just like he'll tell him to go pitcher instead of position player if there is a tie.

It's those biases that MacPhail has that are hurting this team IMO. We can't afford to have biases toward cheap players because in this division premium talent wins, and cheap while it can be good doesn't neccessarily mean best.

Typically you pay more for the better players, that is why their price tags are what they are. Boras doesn't try to represent inferior talent. And while Matzek isn't a Boras client, he still was the only HS pitcher to have four quality pitches which made him the cream of the HS crop according to many.

Until MacPhail actually acquires some premium talent other than a trade (besides Wieters as he didn't draft him) I will question his frugality because he has done nothing to indicate he's willing to go "all in" for premium talent.

[Frobby]

It really annoys me. It's really, really repugnant that the guy who you have to beg to come play is somehow held in higher regard.

There's your evidence. MacPhail doesn't want to have to recruit the player to play for the Orioles. Well I'm sorry, but the Orioles especially in the AL East may have to do some actual recruiting to get top talent here. That is MacPhail's job. The Orioles can't sell themselves, even to a HS kid.

There's a reason you have to beg. It's called the player has talent and wants to be compensated for it and would rather get a college education than possibly be stuck on a losing franchise.

Signable does not necessarily = BPA. The Orioles needed to take the BPA and the jury is certainly out if Hobgood was that...

So by your logic, if 10 other guys think that a girl is the prettiest girl in the school, and she's making clear she's going to play hard to get, and you happen to think that some other girl is better looking, you should ask the first girl out.

(Disclaimer: No I am not saying that you decide who to ask out based solely on her looks; I'm just trying to keep my analogy simple.)

[Burg]

So by your logic, if 10 other guys think that a girl is the prettiest girl in the school, and she's making clear she's going to play hard to get, and you happen to think that some other girl is better looking, you should ask the first girl out.

(Disclaimer: No I am not saying that you decide who to ask out based solely on her looks; I'm just trying to keep my analogy simple.)

Why bother?

Trea makes up his mind (almost always that the O's front office is the bad guy) and then either ignores all evidence to the contrary or misrepresents the evidence to the contrary in order to support the opinion he's always had.

At this point, the only difference between Trea and OldFan is number of posts.

[Florida_Osfan]

It's those biases that MacPhail has that are hurting this team IMO. We can't afford to have biases toward cheap players because in this division premium talent wins, and cheap while it can be good doesn't neccessarily mean best.

Typically you pay more for the better players, that is why their price tags are what they are. Boras doesn't try to represent inferior talent. And while Matzek isn't a Boras client, he still was the only HS pitcher to have four quality pitches which made him the cream of the HS crop according to many.

Until MacPhail actually acquires some premium talent other than a trade (besides Wieters as he didn't draft him) I will question his frugality because he has done nothing to indicate he's willing to go "all in" for premium talent.

I think it is more of your biases hurting your point of view.

Matusz isn't premium talent? Hadn't heard that one before. And your idea of premium is the one FA (shall go nameless) you're using as a beacon for MacPhail's philosophy.

He signed BRob and Markakis to extensions, netted us a huge trade, and drafted the likes of Matusz (Matzek only with more experience and projectionable talent), yet that isn't adding premium talent?

That's why people bash your posts.

[J.D.]

See the thing with Hobgood is that it's fine if Jordan thought he was the BPA, that's his call. But it's the fact that MacPhail has such a negative attitude toward paying for premium talent that gets to me. And you've got to think when counseled in case of a tie of course he will tell Jordan to go with the more signable pick despite the difference in talent, just like he'll tell him to go pitcher instead of position player if there is a tie.

It's those biases that MacPhail has that are hurting this team IMO. We can't afford to have biases toward cheap players because in this division premium talent wins, and cheap while it can be good doesn't neccessarily mean best.

Typically you pay more for the better players, that is why their price tags are what they are. Boras doesn't try to represent inferior talent. And while Matzek isn't a Boras client, he still was the only HS pitcher to have four quality pitches which made him the cream of the HS crop according to many.

What on earth are you even talking about? He's irritated because he absolutely thinks that Hobgood was the best player available, probably because Jordan thinks he was the best player available, but people are running with the perception that it was just a signability pick. That's all that comment was. It sounds like he just got tired of hearing "Oh, you guys just picked Hobgood because he would sign, not because he was the best talent," and wanted to set the record straight.

You think Matzek's a better pitcher then fine. Whatever. The FO thinks that Hobgood was the better pitcher, and it's certainly a plus BUT NOT THE DETERMINING FACTOR that Hobgood wants to play here and will sign. He's basically saying, "Just because a kid's going to be a tough sign doesn't make him the best player."