Bedard to the bullpen?

[rp0806]

Saying all that, I wouldn't move him out of the rotation right now because there is no one ready to take his place. When Penn comes back, and if he's still struggling to get into the 7th inning, I think a move to the pen would benefit all involved.

I agree with this. I'm fine with giving him a few more starts, esp. since they don't have any great options to take his place, but once Penn comes back the Orioles should seriously consider moving Bedard if he's still struggling. I absolutely agree with the notion that the orioles aren't going anywhere and should just let the younger guys play, but here's the thing: Bedard isn't that young anymore. He's had a fair amount of time to develop into a good starter, and it hasn't happened. And since the Orioles aren't going anywhere, why not try experimenting with Bedard in the setup man/Arthur Rhodes role? As I said earlier, 90-100 innings of outstanding pitching in high leverage situations could be a lot more valuable than 175 innings of average to below average pitching as a starter, esp. when he's only going 6 innings per start, forcing the team to rely on the bullpen more.

Good management is all about recognizing a person's strengths and weaknesses and putting them in a position where they can succeed. Earl Weaver was great at that (e.g., recognizing that Belanger's great defense outweighed his horrible offense, creating successful platoons, etc.).

I also agree with Tony that there isn't much point in speculating about Mazzone and his relationship with Bedard. It's entirely possible that there's a lot going on behind the scenes that we don't know about, but that doesn't mean we can't analyze the situation from the outside. I'm certainly entitled to comment on the situation in Iraq even though I'm not actually over there. Outside opinions of a situation can complement those from insiders.

I just find it amazing that such a thread could span 6 pages. God Bless America. Good job rp0806, you obviously know how to stir the pot...

Thank you.

[rp0806]

Also, SG -- I honestly don't understand your position on this issue. You've said in other threads that you think he's the second coming of Ted Lilly...if that's the case and the orioles have other young starters who might be just as good or better than Bedard in 2007 and beyond, why not try Bedard in this role?

If it's just a question of trading him, we'll have to agree to disagree. I just don't think he has much value at this point.

[Flosman]

I think the move would not be a bad one at all. IF we make a trade I do not think it has a chance to happen untill next year at the latest. Assuming Penn and Loewen perform decent there is not another replacement for Bedard if we trade Lopez (which i think is likely). I think his proformance the other night shows exactly what is wrong with Bedard. He is afraid of hitters. He is rolling along gives up a dinger and suddenly won't throw a strike. Campare is outing with Benson's last night. If Bedard gave a homer on the first at bat of the game he probably would not get out of the 3rd inning. I don't think the move to the Pen helps that problem. Other than he likely would have several outings in a row, usually, that where successful . This may let him trust his stuff better. We really need him to pitch to his potential either in the rotation or the Pen, but if he was the centerpiece for a legittmate bat I would make the deal.

[Gentile]

I have absolutely no problem with those who disagree on this subject. There are plenty of ways to look at this thing, most of which have merits, but what does irk me are people who try to insinuate the other opinion is somehow wrong because it doesn't appear to be what the Orioles management is doing right now or that thoe opinions are unreasonable.

An opinion is just that, and nothing more. I had an opinion. You had a differing opinion. I didn't take your opinion on Bedard personally, I didn't single out your opinion on Bedard, and I didn't choose to act somehow to punish you for stating your opinion on Bedard. You on the other hand did all of the above to me. And I'm supposed to consider you the voice of reason for those actions?

[Frobby]

I absolutely agree with the notion that the orioles aren't going anywhere and should just let the younger guys play, but here's the thing: Bedard isn't that young anymore. He's had a fair amount of time to develop into a good starter, and it hasn't happened.

He's not young by age, but as SG pointed out to me when I started a thread on this a few weeks back, he is very young in terms of experience. He pitched only about 350 innings in the minors. Therefore it would be reasonable to hope that he still has room to develop.

[Guest hampden623]

Anyway, there's not much to lose by spending the rest of the season in finding out.

I'm late to this (very entertaining) thread as well... But I second this qoute RZNJ. Say the same for Nick Markakis as well...

I saw where BigBird mentioned that Nick, Penn and Loewen were being committed to this year by the O's management. Good. What on earth will we know about Beddard the Starter, if he spends half the year in the Bullpen?

I want to judge Nick with a full season under his belt, not 3/5's of one. Same with Beddard. I think this could be part of the "Plan" everyone is always screaming about the O's needing to implement.

[Sports Guy]

Also, SG -- I honestly don't understand your position on this issue. You've said in other threads that you think he's the second coming of Ted Lilly...if that's the case and the orioles have other young starters who might be just as good or better than Bedard in 2007 and beyond, why not try Bedard in this role?

If it's just a question of trading him, we'll have to agree to disagree. I just don't think he has much value at this point.

No i haven't...I have said that he is on the path to being Ted Lilly, big difference.

The bottom line is Bedard could be good in the pen, whether you put him there right now or next April.

We suck and are going no where. If anything, you keep him in the rotation, hope that he continues to improve(as he has his last few starts) and up his trade value even more. Putting him in the pen right now doesn' do much for us, especially since we have no idea what Penn or Loewen could/will give us.

The idea of moving Bedard to the pen may end up being the best thing for everyone in the future but that point is not right now and it is not in one month either.

He will have more value in trade than he will as the next Arthur Rhodes, at least for us.

[Loupgaroo]

With all the statistics and opinions being thrown around here, I have still yet to hear anyone who advocates moving Bedard to the 'pen suggest a realistic replacement for him. Is there a pitcher that we have right now not in the rotation already who we think could be better than Bedard? I just don't think that there is. Move Bedard to the 'pen, and we'll be having this exact same conversation next month about his replacement.

[Sports Guy]

With all the statistics and opinions being thrown around here, I have still yet to hear anyone who advocates moving Bedard to the 'pen suggest a realistic replacement for him. Is there a pitcher that we have right now not in the rotation already who we think could be better than Bedard? I just don't think that there is. Move Bedard to the 'pen, and we'll be having this exact same conversation next month about his replacement.

I believe Tony has said, several times, that Penn would be the replacement in a month.

[Loupgaroo]

I believe Tony has said, several times, that Penn would be the replacement in a month.

So wait, what would our rotation look like? My understanding was that Chen was supposed to go down, and Penn would replace HIM.

[Sports Guy]

So wait, what would our rotation look like? My understanding was that Chen was supposed to go down, and Penn would replace HIM.

Loewen, Penn, DC, Benson, Rlo

[Loupgaroo]

Loewen, Penn, DC, Benson, Rlo

Okay, but the jury is very much still out on Loewen. I guess the thing to do is see how his next few starts are, (including tonight against Halladay. Yikes.) I'm skeptical about the virtues of having Adam in the rotation rather than Erik.

BTW, is anyone in the organization actually talking about the possibility of moving Bedard? Or is this purely a theoretical discussion?

[Sports Guy]

Okay, but the jury is very much still out on Loewen. I guess the thing to do is see how his next few starts are, (including tonight against Halladay. Yikes.) I'm skeptical about the virtues of having Adam in the rotation rather than Erik.

BTW, is anyone in the organization actually talking about the possibility of moving Bedard? Or is this purely a theoretical discussion?

Just a discussion.

[davearm]

Loewen, Penn, DC, Benson, Rlo

Seems to me that Penn won't be in the O's rotation much before the trade deadline, if then even.

And RLo doesn't sound likely to be around after the deadline.

[Sports Guy]

Seems to me that Penn won't be in the O's rotation much before the trade deadline, if then even.

Barring them holding off on him because of Loewen pitching well and/or wanting to wait until they trade Rlo, he should be in the rotation by early July.

And RLo doesn't sound likely to be around after the deadline.

The rotation i said was in response to asking what the rotation would be if we moved Bedard to the pen when Penn coems back up in early July.