Eaton and Atkins

[glorydays]

I am not dismissing anything...Any player could fall of a cliff...Whether it be Atkins, Burrell, Johnson, Markakis or BRob. It can happen at anytime for various reasons.

But when their are obvious signs of it and signs that have been going for a few years, those are moves you don't make...If their are no indications of a players decline and you sign them to a sensible contract and they start to suck, that's just bad luck.

There is a difference between that signing and a signing like Atkins...Atkins and Eaton were horrible signings that represented something much larger...Signing Burrell was a poor signing...it was a solid signing that went bad. There is a HUGE difference.

If the Orioles would have signed Nick Swisher last year, and he produced a .869 for us instead of the Yankees... and given that his career seemed to be heading in the wrong direction... would that have been a good or a bad signing?

Again... I agree with everything that you wrote above... I really do. But how many times have you read O's fans cry about clubs like the Sox or the Yankees or sign these guys who seem to be on the downside of their careers and all of the sudden start producing again. The posts are always "why couldn't we have taken a chance with that guy?"

[Sports Guy]

If the Orioles would have signed Nick Swisher last year, and he produced a .869 for us instead of the Yankees... and given that his career seemed to be heading in the wrong direction... would that have been a good or a bad signing?

The Yanks traded next to nothing for Swisher IIRC..They didn't sign him...And I was an advocate of Swisher at the time..One bad year isn't a trend.

[Mackus]

If the Orioles would have signed Nick Swisher last year, and he produced a .869 for us instead of the Yankees... and given that his career seemed to be heading in the wrong direction... would that have been a good or a bad signing?

Again... I agree with everything that you wrote above... I really do. But how many times have you read O's fans cry about clubs like the Sox or the Yankees or sign these guys who seem to be on the downside of their careers and all of the sudden start producing again. The posts are always "why couldn't we have taken a chance with that guy?"

Swisher would have been a great target.

He wasn't on a downward slope, he had one bad season. Huge difference. Sometimes one bad season becomes a downward trend, so you need to be careful, but three progressively worse seasons in a row, with the last two at below average and then below replacement level, almost never turns back around the other way.

[NewMarketSean]

And yet you seem to be supportive of the strategy of spending major money as if we were a free market team!

I am all for signing the right player for the right price.

And yes, that means there are a few guys I would go "all in" for. You wont find me saying we should become the Yankees, though.

[Mackus]

And yet you seem to be supportive of the strategy of spending major money as if we were a free market team!

We are neither a small nor a big market team. We absolutely will have to spend well beyond our current payroll to be truly competitive. We should be up to at least $90M if not much higher. I don't expect us to be able to match the $150M payroll of the Red Sox, but I do think we should be the 3rd biggest spending team in the AL East.

[glorydays]

I am not dismissing anything...Any player could fall of a cliff...Whether it be Atkins, Burrell, Johnson, Markakis or BRob. It can happen at anytime for various reasons.

But when their are obvious signs of it and signs that have been going for a few years, those are moves you don't make...If their are no indications of a players decline and you sign them to a sensible contract and they start to suck, that's just bad luck.

There is a difference between that signing and a signing like Atkins...Atkins and Eaton were horrible signings that represented something much larger...Signing Burrell was a poor signing...it was a solid signing that went bad. There is a HUGE difference.

Let me ask you this... Nick Swisher seemed to be in much the same career slide as Atkins when he was signed last year by the Yankees.

Is this a valid comparison?

One thing that we often complain about around here is when a player gets picked up on a whim by another team and has success. We complain and cry "why didn't the Orioles pick him up?" Now, I want to once again affirm that I am agreement with you that the Atkins signing was a mistake... but I also can see that there was great potential in the risk that was taken by AM if Atkins was able to pull out of his tailspin like Nick Swisher has in New York.

[Sports Guy]

Let me ask you this... Nick Swisher seemed to be in much the same career slide as Atkins when he was signed last year by the Yankees.

Is this a valid comparison?

One thing that we often complain about around here is when a player gets picked up on a whim by another team and has success. We complain and cry "why didn't the Orioles pick him up?" Now, I want to once again affirm that I am agreement with you that the Atkins signing was a mistake... but I also can see that there was great potential in the risk that was taken by AM if Atkins was able to pull out of his tailspin like Nick Swisher has in New York.

Swisher had 1 bad year...Nothing at all like Atkins.

I made post after post saying I felt AM should have gone after Swisher, especially since the WS were basically giving him away.

He would certainly look a lot better at first than Atkins.

None of Swishers peripheral battingh stats were that bad..except a very unlucky BABIP....which went along with a very good LD%..So, he was pretty unlucky in 2008.

[JTrea81]

Let me ask you this... Nick Swisher seemed to be in much the same career slide as Atkins when he was signed last year by the Yankees.

Is this a valid comparison?

One thing that we often complain about around here is when a player gets picked up on a whim by another team and has success. We complain and cry "why didn't the Orioles pick him up?" Now, I want to once again affirm that I am agreement with you that the Atkins signing was a mistake... but I also can see that there was great potential in the risk that was taken by AM if Atkins was able to pull out of his tailspin like Nick Swisher has in New York.

What slide was Swisher on?

He had one down year basically but never dropped off as much as Atkins did.

And the Yankees traded for Swisher, they didn't sign him.

[JTrea81]

Swisher had 1 bad year...Nothing at all like Atkins.

I made post after post saying I felt AM should have gone after Swisher, especially since the WS were basically giving him away.

He would certainly look a lot better at first than Atkins.

Yep, Swisher would have been a great target for us. And still would be...

[eddie83]

He was hoping Atkins could turn his career around and be a long term possibility. Wigginton and Aubrey aren't viewed as long term options and it's obvious the Orioles don't think Scott who turns 32 in June is a real option. MacPhail wasn't looking at the move in terms of using cheaper in house alternatives but a hope for a long term solution. It was a risk, he took a chance.

[NewMarketSean]

He was hoping Atkins could turn his career around and be a long term possibility. Wigginton and Aubrey aren't viewed as long term options and it's obvious the Orioles don't think Scott who turns 32 in June is a real option. MacPhail wasn't looking at the move in terms of using cheaper in house alternatives but a hope for a long term solution. It was a risk, he took a chance.

It was a risk like paying way over market for a 1996 Kia with 100K miles on it and hoping it will still run good is a risk.

Atkins was doomed to fail. Oriole fans called it as soon as he was signed. And when he was signed to play 1B? Forget about it.

[eddie83]

It was a risk like paying way over market for a 1996 Kia with 100K miles on it and hoping it will still run good is a risk.

Atkins was doomed to fail. Oriole fans called it as soon as he was signed. And when he was signed to play 1B? Forget about it.

I'm sure most players are going to want to sign with a contending team like Beltre and Penny did. The better the players around you the better the chance you have of turning your career around. Players are looking at a chance to have a big year and turn it into a multi year contract. The guy is 30 years old not 35. It is not as if most players think of Baltimore as their first destination.

[Singleton]

When that player sucks and has basically been guaranteed a spot, it sure as hell can be.

Then fire the scout and don't listen to them.

You mean the same Daric Barton that has an OBP of almost 500? Or the Jake Fox that they have made a back up C/OFER/DH to have his bat in the lineup? If those are your examples here, then maybe you are the who doesn't know as much as YOU think you do.

He was "guaranteed" a spot for 8 starts. Seriously, its been a year. Get over it.

And you fire a scout for suggesting you take a chance on someone for minimum salary. I guess you expect perfection..

Finally, Barton and Fox aren't the problem. The problem is that he also brought back Jack Cust for a 7 figure salary when there was clearly no room for all three. Cust is earning his dough in AAA. You think that's good roster management?

[Mike B]

Thomas was productive for Toronto in 2007 and Oakland in 2006. When Toronto released him in 2008 after a bad start, Oakland took a chance. So no, I don't think so.

Isn't that what AM did with Eaton took a chance??

[Singleton]

It doesn't matter what kind of deal a player signs for. If that player is getting MLB starts and sucking royally...when every fan said it would suck royally when he was signed...it's a bad move.

Eaton had no reward. Atkins had close to no reward. We should have gone with players who offered some kind of reward. Like Hughes. Or Aubrey. Or Snyder or the kid with the backwards O's hat who always sits behind the Orioles dugout.

OK, I see your point, but that is not what happened. AM said he'd targeted Eaton before he was released by the Phils and liked that he had a lot of QS's.

And if the same can be said of Atkins, fine...just don't blow $4.5 on a project.

Ben Sheets can still work out. If healthy there is no reason to think he won't. I'd much rather spend $10 mil on Sheets than half of that on Atkins.

There is a reason I didn't bring up GM's from big market teams that can absorb bad deals.

Yeah, fine. But what will AM's next blunder be? He's been here 3 years and has made a no-reward move in each of those seasons.

We just have different perspectives on most of this. I'm not defending the Atkins move because i think it was a bad one. My point is that its a single move and personally I think it makes more sense to focus on the braoder picture. Also, in fairness, they did go with Hughes after just 16 games and if Atkins is going to ride the pine -- well -- better him than Snyder who we want playing on a regular basis.

As for Sheets -- on this we disagree strongly. Sure he could turn it around but he looks awful and $10 million for him was an awful deal the moment he was signed.

Every GM makes a lot of moves and some aren't going to work out. Texas traded Millwood and signed Harden -- that's not looking so swell. The Yankees picked of Vazquez -- yikes.

You want small market? How about the Twins trading Garza and Bartlett for the fabulous Delmon Young. pu.