Matusz ROY Finish

[Old#5fan]

Honestly this might be you dumbest position to date. Any idea when the other guys were drafted and where are all the guys drafted before him and higher than him from prior years? I think they should have given it to Price again because he is just that good. As a matter of fact he should get ROY every year until he retires.

What does being fourth versus fifth in the voting for top rookie really matter in any sort of significance? If you think that thought is "dumb" I don't know what to say. Talk about grasping for straws to try to elevate someone.

Kind of like saying a corner outfielder if playing centerfield would have won a Gold Glove. Grasping at straws, pure and simple and utterly meaningless in importance.

I mean you do know the Orioles have actually had players who have won the ROY award, not just come in fourth or fifth don't you? Bottom line is this is much ado about nothing, zero, NADA.

[Flosman]

What does being fourth versus fifth in the voting for top rookie really matter in any sort of significance? If you think that thought is "dumb" I don't know what to say. Talk about grasping for straws to try to elevate someone.

Kind of like saying a corner outfielder if playing centerfield would have won a Gold Glove. Grasping at straws, pure and simple and utterly meaningless in importance.

I mean you do know the Orioles have actually had players who have won the ROY award, not just come in fourth or fifth don't you? Bottom line is this is much ado about nothing, zero, NADA.

Great response to bad it completely changed what you stated. I will take that has you read what you wrote and agree that it was dumb. Btw I understand that the O' have had guys win the award before and I also understand the awArd itself is not really an indication of future greatness. Sometimes yes sometimes no.

[JohnD]

To those who voted that Matusz won't finish in the top 5 -- name the top 5. I don't see any way Matusz finishes lower than 5th.

I put him outside the top 5. A 9-12 record on a team that has won 62 games just isn't impressive to a lot of voters. He had a dismal run earlier this season that sucked a lot of wind out of any hype he was going to get. Maybe he'll get some fourth and fifth place votes, and yeah, Boesch's terrible second half knocked him out of the top 3. But Jackson and Perez are likely to be somewhere 1-2. And after that, who knows? Voters don't seem to go that deep in ROY voting. They'll remember he was beat up pretty good for a while and quickly move on. Whether that's right or not isn't my issue. That's just what the mindset will be, I think. Plus Arrieta may steal some of those votes from Matusz, too.

[Dipper9]

I put him outside the top 5. A 9-12 record on a team that has won 62 games just isn't impressive to a lot of voters. He had a dismal run earlier this season that sucked a lot of wind out of any hype he was going to get. Maybe he'll get some fourth and fifth place votes, and yeah, Boesch's terrible second half knocked him out of the top 3. But Jackson and Perez are likely to be somewhere 1-2. And after that, who knows? Voters don't seem to go that deep in ROY voting. They'll remember he was beat up pretty good for a while and quickly move on. Whether that's right or not isn't my issue. That's just what the mindset will be, I think. Plus Arrieta may steal some of those votes from Matusz, too.

Matusz won't win, but I have to disagree with the bolded part. I have heard a few of the voters stating that King Felix may just pull of the Cy Young win, even with his 12-12 record on a sorry ass team. Matusz won't win, but it won't be because of the bolded part above.

[JohnD]

Oh, Felix is going to win, and win big. Of that I'm sure. His IP, WHIP, BAA, and other stats are so far and away better than anyone else's. But Matusz is no King Felix. Matusz has been no where near as good as Felix. And voters for the Cy Young Award are going to give far greater scrutiny than they will to ROY.

[Frobby]

What does being fourth versus fifth in the voting for top rookie really matter in any sort of significance? If you think that thought is "dumb" I don't know what to say. Talk about grasping for straws to try to elevate someone.

Kind of like saying a corner outfielder if playing centerfield would have won a Gold Glove. Grasping at straws, pure and simple and utterly meaningless in importance.

I mean you do know the Orioles have actually had players who have won the ROY award, not just come in fourth or fifth don't you? Bottom line is this is much ado about nothing, zero, NADA.

What exactly is your point? Yeah, the O's have had several rookies of the year. They've also had Hall of Fame players who didn't win rookie of the year. Still, finishing somewhere near the top of the Rookie of the Year voting is an honor.

You don't have as high an opinion of Brian Matusz as many other posters. Fine, that's your perogative. But there's nothing stupid about this poll. It's a poll for people who have an opinion about who, among rookie players, has had a better season than Matusz. What is stupid is your choice to vote that Matusz won't finish in the top five, when you have absolutely no idea who might finish ahead of him. If you don't like the poll, then don't vote, but don't vote ignorantly.

By the way, David Price didn't receive any votes for AL Rookie of the Year last season.

[ShaneDawg85]

I'll throw one other name out there that I forgot to mention, Reid Brignac. But honestly I'd left him out of the discussion because he doesn't have as many at bats as Jackson or Boesch, and I'm honestly surprised he's still classified as a rookie. He has played three different positions for a playoff bound team, but I will say right now that if Matsuz finishes outside of the top 5, and Brignac is at #5, I'll be majorly pissed.

[ShaneDawg85]

What does being fourth versus fifth in the voting for top rookie really matter in any sort of significance? If you think that thought is "dumb" I don't know what to say. Talk about grasping for straws to try to elevate someone.

Kind of like saying a corner outfielder if playing centerfield would have won a Gold Glove. Grasping at straws, pure and simple and utterly meaningless in importance.

I mean you do know the Orioles have actually had players who have won the ROY award, not just come in fourth or fifth don't you? Bottom line is this is much ado about nothing, zero, NADA.

Because some of us actually view it as significant and a sign of things to come. Unlike some people who take every chance they can to demean and degrade everything they can about the best players on the team. Or maybe it's that some people can look beyond blind foolishness and see the value of a 23 year old rookie pitcher who despite the up's and down's of the season is still one of the tops amongst his peers, and deserves to be recognized as such, regardless of if he wins it or not. He won't win the award. So what? It doesn't make what he has done any less significant now, or going forward.

[ShaneDawg85]

A look at "recent" Oriole finishes in the voting:

2006: Nick Markakis, 6th

2004: Daniel Cabrera, 3rd

2002: Rodrigo Lopez/Jorge Julio: 2nd/3rd

1998: Sidney Ponson, tied-5th

1996: Rocky Coppinger, 4th

1994: Jeffrey Hammonds, 6th

1991: Leo Gomez, tied-8th

1990: Ben McDonald, 8th

1984: Michael Young, 5th

Somehow I expect this to get misconstrued and taken out of context.

[csgordos]

I voted outside the top 5 because the media all hates the Orioles and only loves the Yanks and Soxs. Seriously, when we get better our players will be more on voters mind. Brian is a top 5 rookie but that doesn't mean he will get the votes. If Nick couldn't win a Gold Glove with all his outfield assists in past years, how will Matusz be on most voters minds.

[ShaneDawg85]

I voted outside the top 5 because the media all hates the Orioles and only loves the Yanks and Soxs. Seriously, when we get better our players will be more on voters mind. Brian is a top 5 rookie but that doesn't mean he will get the votes. If Nick couldn't win a Gold Glove with all his outfield assists in past years, how will Matusz be on most voters minds.

Off the top of my head I don't think the Yankees or Sox have any rookies this season, at least none that would qualify, so I wouldn't worry about that. As for the second part, it's a weak rookie class, especially when it comes to pitching. So even if the media did hate the Orioles, or the team is terrible, that counts for something.

But now I realize it's all for naught. Clearly the voters are going to atone for their past decisions and give the award to David Price.:thumbsup1:

[DrungoHazewood]

Age old debate of pitch every five days versus playing every day argument I suppose. I'm still learning about WAR, so there's still a lot about it I'm not familiar with.

I think WAR takes account of that. In any case, I say that argument is a little overblown, since a starter pitching 200 innings will face 800+ batters, while a position player may only bat 600 times. Depending on defensive contributions a position player may not have more opportunity to contribute than a starting pitcher.

[Sports Guy]

What does being fourth versus fifth in the voting for top rookie really matter in any sort of significance? If you think that thought is "dumb" I don't know what to say. Talk about grasping for straws to try to elevate someone.

Kind of like saying a corner outfielder if playing centerfield would have won a Gold Glove. Grasping at straws, pure and simple and utterly meaningless in importance.

I mean you do know the Orioles have actually had players who have won the ROY award, not just come in fourth or fifth don't you? Bottom line is this is much ado about nothing, zero, NADA.

You just did a great job summarizing your thoughts and knowledge on this board.

[O'sFanThruJune]

To those who voted that Matusz won't finish in the top 5 -- name the top 5. I don't see any way Matusz finishes lower than 5th.

Agreed. The thing to remember here is that voters only vote for three spots, unlike the MVP. So it's not like he's going to be hurt by voters filling up 10 spots with guys from winning teams at Matusz's expense. To finish in fifth place, he'll probably just need a handful of second- and third-place votes. If most voters vote Feliz/Davis/Jackson, it won't take much for Matusz to get the few votes he needs.

For reference, in 2009 Gordon Beckham was fifth place with two second- and four third-place votes out of 28 ballots.

[Old#5fan]

I put him outside the top 5. A 9-12 record on a team that has won 62 games just isn't impressive to a lot of voters. He had a dismal run earlier this season that sucked a lot of wind out of any hype he was going to get. Maybe he'll get some fourth and fifth place votes, and yeah, Boesch's terrible second half knocked him out of the top 3. But Jackson and Perez are likely to be somewhere 1-2. And after that, who knows? Voters don't seem to go that deep in ROY voting. They'll remember he was beat up pretty good for a while and quickly move on. Whether that's right or not isn't my issue. That's just what the mindset will be, I think. Plus Arrieta may steal some of those votes from Matusz, too.

I don't always agree with you but this is spot on!:thumbsup1::vader::agree: