Matusz ROY Finish

[survivedc]

what more do you want Felix to do to "deserve" the award? he has a 2.27 era and a .35 era against the yankees, the best offensive team in baseball and he has 30 quality starts...if he doesn't deserve it, then yeah, maybe they should just skip the award this year

[Can_of_corn]

What you need to realize is that there are very few rookies who break in and have great success right away -- this year or any other year. For a guy like Matusz to come in at age 23 and not miss a single start and pitch pretty well puts him way, way above most rookies. There are 50+ rookie pitchers who started a game in 2010, and only 5 of them threw enough innings to qualify.

I think the NL ROY will be very interesting. I seriously doubt Strasburg wins the award. He simply didn't pitch long enough. But, I won't be surprised if he gets some votes.

The NL crop is stronger then the AL crop as well. No way Strasburg deserves the award over Heyward for instance.

[survivedc]

or posey

[Old#5fan]

Then you haven't paid attention to the 2010 Seattle Mariners.

Hernandez has 12 losses. The Mariners have only scored 14 runs in those losses.

So what? Again 13-12 isn't good enough either to get the top pitching award in the league. It just isn't, period. Now, I agree if he pitched for a team like the Yankees who scored him some runs he would probably have the right numbers but he doesn't and you sure as hell couldn't base it on that anyway. I thought sure Mussina after leaving the Orioles could win a Cy Young with all that run support from the high powered offense of the Yankees but it didn't happen.

[Old#5fan]

what more do you want Felix to do to "deserve" the award? he has a 2.27 era and a .35 era against the yankees, the best offensive team in baseball and he has 30 quality starts...if he doesn't deserve it, then yeah, maybe they should just skip the award this year

If he was 15-10 maybe so but he isn't. Unless a strike shortened season no starting pitcher is going to win it with 13 measly wins.

[Frobby]

So what? Again 13-12 isn't good enough either to get the top pitching award in the league. It just isn't, period. Now, I agree if he pitched for a team like the Yankees who scored him some runs he would probably have the right numbers but he doesn't.

Are we discussing whether he will win the award, or whether he should?

I agree he probably won't win it. If Roger Clemens didn't win the year he went 13-8 with a 1.87 ERA, then I can't see how King Felix is likely to win this year.

As to whether he should win it, it's debatable, but not because of his won-lost record. The bigger issue is that he plays in a pitcher's park against relatively weak competition, so one could argue that if he pitched in the AL East his ERA wouldn't be nearly so impressive. But here's the problem with that argument:

Vs. New York: 0.35 ERA

Vs. Boston: 1.23 ERA

Vs. Toronto: 1.13 ERA

Vs. Baltimore: 0.56 ERA

Sorry, but to me, King Felix ought to be the winner.

[Frobby]

If he was 15-10 maybe so but he isn't. Unless a strike shortened season no starting pitcher is going to win it with 13 measly wins.

He'll get one more start, so maybe it'll be 14 wins. I will be rooting for him to win that game to give the voters a little more comfort, but he really should win either way.

Here's another way to look at it: the Mariners are 17-17 when Hernandez starts, and 44-79 when anyone else starts.

[Old#5fan]

Are we discussing whether he will win the award, or whether he should?

I agree he probably won't win it. If Roger Clemens didn't win the year he went 13-8 with a 1.87 ERA, then I can't see how King Felix is likely to win this year.

As to whether he should win it, it's debatable, but not because of his won-lost record. The bigger issue is that he plays in a pitcher's park against relatively weak competition, so one could argue that if he pitched in the AL East his ERA wouldn't be nearly so impressive. But here's the problem with that argument:

Vs. New York: 0.35 ERA

Vs. Boston: 1.23 ERA

Vs. Toronto: 1.13 ERA

Vs. Baltimore: 0.56 ERA

Sorry, but to me, King Felix ought to be the winner.

I was arguing who will win it but I would also argue he shouldn't win it either. As you stated, Clemens didn't win it with even better stats because the standards have been set that you need to win more than 13 games unless you pick it up as a reliever like I believe Rollie Fingers or Eckersly did (forget which one).

[Old#5fan]

He'll get one more start, so maybe it'll be 14 wins. I will be rooting for him to win that game to give the voters a little more comfort, but he really should win either way.

Here's another way to look at it: the Mariners are 17-17 when Hernandez starts, and 44-79 when anyone else starts.

He may deserve it but he won't get it when there are guys with more typical Cy Young winning stats like CC and Price. You cannot just water down the wins/losses totals because a guy pitches on a crappy team.

[Sports Guy]

He may deserve it but he won't get it when there are guys with more typical Cy Young winning stats like CC and Price. You cannot just water down the wins/losses totals because a guy pitches on a crappy team.

The Cy Young award is supposed to go to the best pitcher...Felix has been the best pitcher this year.

[ledzepp8]

Isn't he part of the team? A great pitcher will do a better job of pitching to their run support. 13-13 IMO isn't outstanding enough for a Cy Young. That is a mediocre record, and not nearly enough wins.

What if your run support is 0?

[Frobby]

He may deserve it but he won't get it when there are guys with more typical Cy Young winning stats like CC and Price. You cannot just water down the wins/losses totals because a guy pitches on a crappy team.

How far do you take this? If a guy throws to an 0.50 ERA and loses 15 1-0 games, do you hold it against him that his team can't hit?

I will tell you what I think: never say never. Personally, I still think W-L is relevant. But it's not the only criterion. I'm looking at not only Hernandez's ERA, but also his IP (1st in the league) and his strikeouts (1st in the league). And then I'm looking at why he has only won 13 games. You can only penalize a guy so far for things he doesn't control.

9/23 - 8 IP, 1 run, loss

8/31 - 7 IP, 0 runs, no decision

7/21 - 8 IP, 0 runs, no decision

6/24 - 9 IP, 2 runs, no decision

5/29 - 8 IP, 1 run, no decision

5/13 - 7 IP, 1 run, no decision

Those are just the most extreme examples. There are other ND's and losses where he pitched very well. But the guy should have won 18-20 games, and it's not his fault that he plays on (by far) the worst hitting team in the league.

[olehippi]

I'd love to see him get some recognition by finishing in the Top 5. IMO, he deserves it. But I don't think he's even on the ROY radar screen. Hope I'm wrong.

[Old#5fan]

The Cy Young award is supposed to go to the best pitcher...Felix has been the best pitcher this year.

I would be shocked if he gets it. Traditional stats used to pick the award don't say he is the best pitcher. Not really even close to CC or Price.

[Old#5fan]

How far do you take this? If a guy throws to an 0.50 ERA and loses 15 1-0 games, do you hold it against him that his team can't hit?

I will tell you what I think: never say never. Personally, I still think W-L is relevant. But it's not the only criterion. I'm looking at not only Hernandez's ERA, but also his IP (1st in the league) and his strikeouts (1st in the league). And then I'm looking at why he has only won 13 games. You can only penalize a guy so far for things he doesn't control.

9/23 - 8 IP, 1 run, loss

8/31 - 7 IP, 0 runs, no decision

7/21 - 8 IP, 0 runs, no decision

6/24 - 9 IP, 2 runs, no decision

5/29 - 8 IP, 1 run, no decision

5/13 - 7 IP, 1 run, no decision

Those are just the most extreme examples. There are other ND's and losses where he pitched very well. But the guy should have won 18-20 games, and it's not his fault that he plays on (by far) the worst hitting team in the league.

No, its not but traditionally the MVP award (for example) goes to a player on a team that makes the playoffs. So since CC and Price both are on teams in the playoffs, I bet one of them gets the coveted award. I am not arguing whether this is fair or not (hell life isn't fair) but that is the way it is.

On a side note, does Pie look good in RF or what? He just made a throw every bit as good as Markakis to nail a runner at second by a mile.:clap3: