MacPhail Claims O's Had No Chance to Match Offer for VMart

[Hank Scorpio]

It's just a lame excuse that nobody should buy into. The Orioles have never tried hard enough under MacPhail to change anybody's mind.

Carlos Beltran didn't want to be a Met, CC Sabathia didn't want to be a Yankee. Good teams figure out how to overcome players not wanting to come to their team.

The very nature of this situation refutes your opinion. They never came back to the Orioles with a chance to beat Detroit's offer.

If you go on a date with a chick and she doesn't call you back, she doesn't like you. Move along. It's not an excuse it is a FACT. Do you really believe the Orioles knew what Detroit had offered Martinez? Do you agree that 4/48 for a meh first baseman is an aggressive offer?

I'll ask again:

Do you agree that 4/48 is an aggressive offer for Victor Martinez if you're not granted the luxury of knowing what everyone else has offered?

Hello, McFly?

[clapdiddy]

Unfortunately, I think we're to the point where we are not going to lure any major free agents here. Quite honestly, this year's crop of free agents is uninspiring anyway.

I'm hoping that our major moves are going to come via trade this offseason. It's really the only chance we've got.

[Going Underground]

Where's Buck in all of this?

I thought he had a relationship with Martinez in Cleveland? I thought Buck was out there actively recruiting free agents? So... if Buck was actively recruiting Victor Martinez, and MacPhail put out an offer of $12MM a year for 4 years, how did we get here?

Maybe, the Buck as getting this and getting players is overated. The comment that players want to come here seems alot of talk. The players like Berkman and Damon and other once fine players, but who else?

[TiredofLosing20]

Yep, I find it disturbing that Martinez was their top target, and I find it disturbing that they thought 4/48 would be enough. I'm actually not sure which blunder I find more disturbing.

Agreed on the top target, that is bizarre to me.

[scOtt]

My critique is not the offer (other than it was higher than I would have gone) it is more the fact that AM still believes he is going to get a chance to counter. I surely hope that if they are serious about Beltre they don't use this same approach.

I COMPLETELY DISAGREE WITH YOU ON THIS!

... Except that I agree...

[Stan P]

It makes perfect sense for him to not think twice about us and want to go to Detroit. He wants to play catcher not 1B and he also wants to win. He played for the Indians then the Red Sox. Why would he want to go back to losing?

Only chance we had was if we offered 4/60.

[Dipper9]

I disagree with the bolded, this team is in a much better position than it was 3 years ago. It's young, talented and cheap.

I do, however, question his ability to add to it. He appears fairly incapable of that.

We are younger...we have some talent...we are cheap...and we still SUCK!

Now, is there a foundation that has POTENTIAL? Absolutely. But potential and a buck will buy you a McDouble at McDonalds. Potential will not win you ball games. Potential will not lure more talent to Baltimore. And potential does not make this current team good. All MacPhail has accomplished is that we now get to watch younger talented players lose rather than washed up bums lose. Either way, we still have a losing team.

[jerios55]

The very nature of this situation refutes your opinion. They never came back to the Orioles with a chance to beat Detroit's offer.

If you go on a date with a chick and she doesn't call you back, she doesn't like you. Move along. It's not an excuse it is a FACT. Do you really believe the Orioles knew what Detroit had offered Martinez? Do you agree that 4/48 for a meh first baseman is an aggressive offer?

Well, after years of girls not calling back I think you need change the way to present yourself. Putting in a good first date is all well and good, but there is a certain point you should find yourself a girlfriend.

The "money should be used elsewhere" and "it's still early in the offseason" quotes have been cut and paste for years. If VMart was their #1 target (whether you agree or not) they need to make him think twice about an offer. Was 4/48 a good offer? Yes, it seems to be the case. Are we in position that a "good" offer will be enough? No. If that isn't clear now, I don't know when it will be.

[scOtt]

We are younger...we have some talent...we are cheap...and we still SUCK!

Now, is there a foundation that has POTENTIAL? Absolutely. But potential and a buck will buy you a McDouble at McDonalds. Potential will not win you ball games. Potential will not lure more talent to Baltimore. And potential does not make this current team good. All MacPhail has accomplished is that we now get to watch younger talented players lose rather than washed up bums lose. Either way, we still have a losing team.

AM needs to go all-in on a player then, which I'm starting to doubt... Beltre seems best to me, but pick your fav here. He needs to go out of his comfort zone and BREAK THE LOGJAM! Get. A. Damn. Player. HERE!

I'm starting to doubt he ever will.

[Arthur_Bryant]

So if Martinez was our TOP target, and MacPhail couldn't ven get the TOP priority accomplished....ugh!

Dipper, what do you want? Are they supposed to kidnap his kids and hold them for ransom? Put a gun to his head?

He didn't want to come here. The O's have been pathetic losers for a dozen years. Given a choice, almost nobody wants to play for an organization like that.

IMO the O's and the Tigers were right at the limit of what Martinez should be paid. He's a good player, not a franchise-changer. Could the O's have opened up with a 4/72 and scared everybody else away? Probably. The problem is, that's a dumb thing to do. Wildly overpaying for a good but not great player won't end the pathetic losers streak. And as long as the O's are pathetic losers, they will stand little chance of getting the players everyone wants.

Get ready for the same thing from Konerko and Beltre.

They don't want to come here.

[Dr. FLK]

How is 2 million less than he signed for, 10 DAYS AGO, lowballing? And then his agent wouldn't even listen to another offer.

I'm leary on VMart at 4/48, but I am in no way thinking we lowballed him. Sorry my friend, but you are just wrong!

It clearly wasn't their best offer, since they were hoping he'd come back for negotiations. Not pathetic, but not the best they were willing to do.

[wildcard]

Dipper, what do you want? Are they supposed to kidnap his kids and hold them for ransom? Put a gun to his head?

He didn't want to come here. The O's have been pathetic losers for a dozen years. Given a choice, almost nobody wants to play for an organization like that.

IMO the O's and the Tigers were right at the limit of what Martinez should be paid. He's a good player, not a franchise-changer. Could the O's have opened up with a 4/72 and scared everybody else away? Probably. The problem is, that's a dumb thing to do. Wildly overpaying for a good but not great player won't end the pathetic losers streak. And as long as the O's are pathetic losers, they will stand little chance of getting the players everyone wants.

Get ready for the same thing from Konerko and Beltre.

They don't want to come here.

4/56 may have made a difference. But we will never know.

[Dipper9]

Dipper, what do you want? Are they supposed to kidnap his kids and hold them for ransom? Put a gun to his head?

He didn't want to come here. The O's have been pathetic losers for a dozen years. Given a choice, almost nobody wants to play for an organization like that.

IMO the O's and the Tigers were right at the limit of what Martinez should be paid. He's a good player, not a franchise-changer. Could the O's have opened up with a 4/72 and scared everybody else away? Probably. The problem is, that's a dumb thing to do. Wildly overpaying for a good but not great player won't end the pathetic losers streak. And as long as the O's are pathetic losers, they will stand little chance of getting the players everyone wants.

Get ready for the same thing from Konerko and Beltre.

They don't want to come here.

I have stated my opinion on this several times.

1. I think 4/48 was a very fair offer, especially considering it was made face to face and MacPhail left it open for renegotiating.

2. I think Martinez wanted to catch, not play first base, regardless of the team.

3. I do NOT agree that Martinez should have been our TOP target, but being that he WAS, then MacPhail should have done what was needed to get HIS top target.

To summarize, I do not blame MacPhail for not landing Martinez. I fault him for making him his top target to begin with!

[allstar1579]

No big deal, it's too much money for a guy that wouldn't have had a set position and doesn't have an exceptional bat for 1B/DH. I'd be happier giving up a 2nd to sign Dunn, or trading DH for Reynolds.

[Hank Scorpio]

We obviously need to make an offer they can't refuse.

Where's Luca Brasi when you need his big dumb ass?