O's have exceeded 2011 budget

[Crazysilver03]

Even though most reports say the Orioles were in the $73M range in 2010, I believe we were closer to $62M when it was all said and done.

We are currently around $76M, so if we are over-budget that means we are at approximately $75M, which is fairly disappointing if true.

This would explain the nickle and diming of Uehara, but makes the Gregg move even more disappointing. It also calls into question the Accardo signing at over $1M.

And while this may not have an effect on future payrolls, I would think it would give a little glimpse.

I would hope this doesn't need to Scott being the one dealt because of monetary issues, but if he is traded, I could see him coupled with Harris.

[crissfan172]

Another thing to note...I would imagine that the closer we get to competing, the more money they would spend on payroll as opposed to the draft.

[Mr Snuffleupagus]

This year's budget has nothing to do with the budget in 2012 and beyond.

Nothing? Excuse my ignorance. I understand that year to year we lose the burden of some contracts while likely gaining the burden of others. I understand certain players help offset their cost by presumably driving up attendance etc. But I think this has to be at least an indicator of where we can expect to be in years to come. To me, attendance and tv revenue need to greatly increase before I'd expect the budget to greatly increase. Hopefully, with a much improved roster, those things will happen as a result of a much improved record and we can expect higher "payroll/ budget" in the near future...

Since I worded it that way, "payroll/ budget", can anyone explain the difference between the payroll and the budget? Obviously payroll refers to the players salaries. Does budget include things like park improvements or are those completely separate entities?

[wildcard]

Even though most reports say the Orioles were in the $73M range in 2010, I believe we were closer to $62M when it was all said and done.

We are currently around $76M, so if we are over-budget that means we are at approximately $75M, which is fairly disappointing if true.

This would explain the nickle and diming of Uehara, but makes the Gregg move even more disappointing. It also calls into question the Accardo signing at over $1M.

And while this may not have an effect on future payrolls, I would think it would give a little glimpse.

I would hope this doesn't need to Scott being the one dealt because of monetary issues, but if he is traded, I could see him coupled with Harris.

I think there is a difference between budget and what has currently been spent.

Budget would have estimates for all the 25-27 man roster including estimates for the arbitration eligible and 1-3 year players that the O's will sign. That is the 78-80M budget the way I think about it.

The current amount spent would not include all the 25-27 man roster. I say 27 because Harris will probably start in the minors though he is on a ML contract. Berken or someone may start the year in the DL. DL guys continue to get their ML salaries.

[scOtt]

I'm betting this year's budget is a floating target, if it needs to be.

[Crazysilver03]

I think there is a difference between budget and what has currently been spent.

Budget would have estimates for all the 25-27 man roster including estimates for the arbitration eligible and 1-3 year players that the O's will sign. That is the 78-80M budget the way I think about it.

The current amount spent would not include all the 25-27 man roster. I say 27 because Harris will probably start in the minors though he is on a ML contract. Berken or someone may start the year in the DL. DL guys continue to get their ML salaries.

I don't really see what difference you are trying to define here.

A budget is what you can spend and if you are over-budget, it is because you have over-spent. Luckily though, they still have time to trim the budget.

But this would also note that there may not be money to acquire someone mid-season if the Orioles are doing well, not that they have ever really acquired anyone of importance mid-season.

[wildcard]

I don't really see what difference you are trying to define here.

A budget is what you can spend and if you are over-budget, it is because you have over-spent. Luckily though, they still have time to trim the budget.

But this would also note that there may not be money to acquire someone mid-season if the Orioles are doing well, not that they have ever really acquired anyone of importance mid-season.

The difference is that the budget has in it players on the roster that have not been signed yet.

The amount spent does not.

[Crazysilver03]

The difference is that the budget has in it players on the roster that have not been signed yet.

The amount spent does not.

If you want to get into semantics, technically nothing has been spent yet.

The numbers presented, the $74M-$77M is the range of the payroll depending on where Scott and Guthrie fall.

[Sports Guy]

Nothing? Excuse my ignorance. I understand that year to year we lose the burden of some contracts while likely gaining the burden of others. I understand certain players help offset their cost by presumably driving up attendance etc. But I think this has to be at least an indicator of where we can expect to be in years to come. To me, attendance and tv revenue need to greatly increase before I'd expect the budget to greatly increase. Hopefully, with a much improved roster, those things will happen as a result of a much improved record and we can expect higher "payroll/ budget" in the near future...

Since I worded it that way, "payroll/ budget", can anyone explain the difference between the payroll and the budget? Obviously payroll refers to the players salaries. Does budget include things like park improvements or are those completely separate entities?

You just answered your own question. If the Orioles see a jump in attendance and TV revenue this season, then the budget can go up. That's how these things work.

Around the time the offseason started, I made a thread asking people to build their team using 85 million. I felt that was the high end of where the payroll would be this year and that looks to be accurate.

If you sell more tickets and do some more things on the TV/radio side, then the revenues being brought in go up and hopefully that means the team will spend more money.

[Crazysilver03]

The difference is that the budget has in it players on the roster that have not been signed yet.

The amount spent does not.

Why doesn't the amount spent have that?

The payroll numbers cited in this thread are for 27 roster spots. Hell, it is your numbers you came up with.

[Brendan25]

You just answered your own question. If the Orioles see a jump in attendance and TV revenue this season, then the budget can go up. That's how these things work.

Around the time the offseason started, I made a thread asking people to build their team using 85 million. I felt that was the high end of where the payroll would be this year and that looks to be accurate.

If you sell more tickets and do some more things on the TV/radio side, then the revenues being brought in go up and hopefully that means the team will spend more money.

Exactly. We have had this conversation before millions of times. It's the baseball "chicken and egg" argument.

Do you win first before you start spending more money on free agents, or do you start spending more money on free agents first and hope that you make up that money in revenue? It looks like at this time in the Orioles progression they are using the first scenario.

[TonySoprano]

As if Guerrero would totally break the bank, sending the team to financial ruin. We'd have Pete Angelos selling pencils from a cup outside the ballpark while his son John plays the violin, and wife Georgia holding a bake sale.

[Sports Guy]

Exactly. We have had this conversation before millions of times. It's the baseball "chicken and egg" argument.

Do you win first before you start spending more money on free agents, or do you start spending more money on free agents first and hope that you make up that money in revenue? It looks like at this time in the Orioles progression they are using the first scenario.

80-85 million is plenty of money to spend to win. You just have less margin for error and need to be smarter.

[Brendan25]

80-85 million is plenty of money to spend to win. You just have less margin for error and need to be smarter.

I completely agree. And I think that signing a guy like Duscherer could really be the last piece to this team being a contender this season.

[NCRaven]

You just answered your own question. If the Orioles see a jump in attendance and TV revenue this season, then the budget can go up. That's how these things work...If you sell more tickets and do some more things on the TV/radio side, then the revenues being brought in go up and hopefully that means the team will spend more money.

Also, keep in mind that the budget can change based on MacPhail's assessment of how competitive the team will be this year or next. If he believes that the team is ready to take the next step and compete for a spot in the playoffs, he and ownership can decide to increase the budget to take that next step. That could come at the trade deadline if we're surprisingly competitive during this season, or next off season if they think the team will be ready in 2012.

Also, it would help if some people (not SG, just in general) would read the articles linked and their followups and not just the OP. Zriebek states that he gets the impression that Angelos would be willing to increase the budget for Vlad if MacPhail felt it would help the team.