Another Fielder thread...my apologies

[Slappy]

Do you guys think it is that point? Do you think it is just time say, nothing we want to do is either working or getting implemented, so let's just spend stupidly and see what happens?

The Zito contract hasn't hamstrung San Francisco.

The Mo Vaughn deal didn't bury the Angels.

The Kevin Brown deal didn't kill the Dodgers for decades.

I don't know that there are a whole lot of instances of one deal burying your team for a decade. What do we have to lose, really?

[FanSince88]

Just look at what the Brewers have done with Fielder all these years. Yeah they're doing well this year but they haven't been that great. One guy can't win a championship himself. Especially if he's a hitter.

[Pedro Cerrano]

I used to feel this way a few years ago before I tried to understand the game more. My basic approach was that you'd never be able to compete with Boston and New York when they can go out and sign EVERYONE.

Then Tampa Bay happened and I got renewed vigor. But, that seems to only last so long as two of the huge pieces of the Rays' "dynasty" (Crawford and Soriano) when to Boston and New York respectively.

I'm almost back to having my original stance. Spend the money. Trade the young guys for proven talent.

[OrioleMagic]

I guess it comes down to whether we fans have more confidence in Buck taking the "go for it" result into the postseason, or Orioles Minor League Instructors/Managers/Coaches developing the "blow it up" return.

It sucks to be an Oriole fan right now.

[Moose Milligan]

BTW, in no way do I think this is the smart way to go..I am just wondering if people have gotten to that point where they just don't care.

I'm getting closer to that point. As others have mentioned, I don't think anything the Orioles can do will work.

And the more I start to think that way, the more I'm willing to say F it. If the Orioles are going to be miserable failures, I'd at least like to see a fat ass first baseman who can hit it 450 feet.

[TiredofLosing20]

I'm getting closer to that point. As others have mentioned, I don't think anything the Orioles can do will work.

And the more I start to think that way, the more I'm willing to say F it. If the Orioles are going to be miserable failures, I'd at least like to see a fat ass first baseman who can hit it 450 feet.

Yup... I am getting closer to that point.

[Pedro Cerrano]

I mean the whole "develop the system" thing simply hasn't worked.

How many great players have we developed over the last 14 years? 2? 3? We keep grasping and holding onto this idea that we should stock up on as much young talent as possible and go from there but, as history shows, doing that is far from a sure thing.

At least throwing large gobs of money puts butts in seats and sells t-shrits and puts us on SportsCenter. I need SOMETHING to get excited about and Brian Matusz throwing 86 MPH fastballs and Matt Wieters hitting singles isn't it.

[Frobby]

BTW, in no way do I think this is the smart way to go..I am just wondering if people have gotten to that point where they just don't care.

I'm getting close. We've been trying the patient, conservative approach for at least 7 years now and we've just been running in place. As I said in a thread a few weeks ago, I think we need to pick a more extreme strategy, whether it entails (1) going out and spending huge dollars in an effort to galvanize the team and win now, and (2) trading away a lot of established talent, getting draft picks and rebuilding towards 2013 and beyond. I think I'd prefer either choice to the path we are on now.

[Sports Guy]

I'm getting close. We've been trying the patient, conservative approach for at least 7 years now and we've just been running in place. As I said in a thread a few weeks ago, I think we need to pick a more extreme strategy, whether it entails (1) going out and spending huge dollars in an effort to galvanize the team and win now, and (2) trading away a lot of established talent, getting draft picks and rebuilding towards 2013 and beyond. I think I'd prefer either choice to the path we are on now.

I want them to make several trades now and then look to spend big money in the offseason

[SrMeowMeow]

As long as I project the current roster for 80-85 wins, I have no problem trying to supplement with premium talent. I think adding a big FA to a 60-65 win team is beyond idiotic though. For the record, I put our true talent at that 80-85 win mark before the season and I feel similarly going forward, so I'd have no problem with some big acquisitions this offseason (or last).

[mweb]

I'm not sure I see the point because we already know the last couple years of the contract will likely be bad, but more importantly the first year or two will likely not be enough to propel the team to the playoffs.

If we are to choose between unrealistic options, I'd go with the complete rebuild and tremendous investment in the draft and internal market route over the spending a lot on free agents route.

Now if the team can expand it's payroll to $120 + million that would change my mind.

[hose]

Recasting Joe Jackson:

"Mama always told me, save yourself. Take a little time and find the right (girl) Baseball Player. Then again don't end up on the shelf. Logical advice gets you in a whirl"

You fix what you CAN fix when you get an opportunity. Ideals are great, but we're not living in an ideal world. If there's a chance in blue blazes (unlikely) you can get Fielder, of course you do it. You can't chuck in the few viable players we have for one answer- so you spend what you can spend to get as reasonably sure a bet as you can in an area of need,regardless of whether that need is first or third on your list. The alternative is what we've been living through- hope, then suckage. You also can't discount the ripple effect of good players- just as (I believe) we've been living thru a ripple effect of bad pitching/bad situational hitting.

Drop a few judicious improvements in the lineup and pitching staff- trade a few (not all) of the chips we have to address more areas of need- and add a few pieces that didn't come up in this den of inadequacy; helping to change the team's apparent fatalism and I'm reasonably confident that the sum will exceed the value of the parts.

Counterpoint: This management team signed how many stopgaps? This management team drafted Hobgood. The above applies to a team that's actually dedicated to improving- not throwing enough on the field to make a H/A'd attempt at .500 and to keep a disaffected fan base attached to the team with a few cosmetic changes.

I allow myself one quote per post, so I won't repeat the one about the definition of insanity. No more HA stuff. Poop or go potless.

[JTrea81]

Go all in or go home.

I've been saying it for three years now and it's still the same.

Treading water is getting us nowhere other than the bottom of the ocean and the division.

[Ooooooohhhh!!!!]

I want them to make several trades now and then look to spend big money in the offseason

Unfortunately what you want them to do has no bearing on what they'll actually do. The smart plan and the Orioles plan typically don't belong in the same sentence.

I don't mind watching a terrible team for a few more years if I feel we're truly building for something. At this point I'm leaning towards a total rebuild as my preferred avenue. I doubt happens. I wouldn't mind seeing us add and subtract at the dealine and during the offseason if it makes us younger and better in the long run. Even that seems like a long shot.

I'm resigned to the fact that we're going to range from awful to below average until we get new ownership. In the meantime I'll settle for some excitement no matter how it comes.

[DrungoHazewood]

BTW, in no way do I think this is the smart way to go..I am just wondering if people have gotten to that point where they just don't care.

Yes, at this point I'd rather them go all in and try to win stupidly, in a way that will probably play scorched earth with the team in the future, than just goof along doing what they've been doing.

I would have preferred the Orioles to go absolutely nuts in the draft and the international market instead, but it seems there's no chance of that happening.

I would suggest a full scale rebuild, but MacPhail is not aggressive enough in any market to acquire the necessary talent to make it work. Combine that with a curiously inept development system, and I'm almost thinking, "what's the point?"

Fielder will get a stupid, risky contract, as will several other players in free agency. But nothing else the Orioles have tried has worked, and they seem to be stuck. I'm not advocating it, but I wouldn't be any more upset about throwing money at Fielder than I would be about holding on to Guthrie and the other trade chips and going about another ho hum offseason.

Pretty much.

The Zito contract hasn't hamstrung San Francisco.

The Mo Vaughn deal didn't bury the Angels.

The Kevin Brown deal didn't kill the Dodgers for decades.

I don't know that there are a whole lot of instances of one deal burying your team for a decade. What do we have to lose, really?

Did those deals bury their teams? No, I guess not. But did it really impact their ability to go out and get pieces they needed? Absolutely! The amazing part of the Giants' run last year was that they had a whole bushel basket of useless players sucking up 10s of millions of dollars. Can you imagine what kind of team they could have built if they weren't essentially limited to a $50M or $60M budget? The Giants were working under similar payroll constraints to the Rays or the Royals or somebody, just with $30M or $40M of dead weight thrown in for good measure.