Would you trade Guthrie for Colby Rasmus?

[Roll Tide]

Would they turn it down? I don't know. Maybe, they are frustrated Rasmus has not developed quicker and are irritated with the side issues with his father.

Would I accept it if I were the Cardinals? No, I wouldn't. I would not give up a potential star level position player, who we control cheaply for multiple years... for a starting pitcher on the wrong side of 30 (whose contract expires after '12), a power reliever, and two talented arms (currently in High A, and the NY Penn League). Don't have to seel me on Bundy or Bridwell, I like them both. When I did the Goldstein interivew after the Amateur draft, I had B.Bundy as our 4th best prospect, and Bridwell 6th. I do think there is a good opportunity for both to move quickly.

I understand the rationale that there is a lack of arms from the top of the system, to them. I understand that the issues the current young Major Leaguers are having, is example of why you always need to stockpile pitching. I'd have trouble moving them for many more established players. However, I 'd have no problem moving them as part of a package for a player as talented as Rasmus that you would control that cheaply, that long.

Would you doa Jones +1 type deal for Rasmus if your the Cards?

[skanar]

Rasmus reminds me a whole lot of Adam Jones. In fact, Jones is one of Rasmus' BB-ref comps. And Rasmus is only one year younger.

He's not Andrew McCutchen - remember.

[nate22]

Just out of curiosity, Is Rasmus really a better CFer than Jones? I'd love to have him (somewhere in the OF) but I'm not sure if he would solve any of the issues that people have with Jones in center.

[Tank]

Just out of curiosity, Is Rasmus really a better CFer than Jones? I'd love to have him (somewhere in the OF) but I'm not sure if he would solve any of the issues that people have with Jones in center.

Yes. Yes he is.

[sangar]

Guthrie, Johnson, Bridwell, and Bundy are too much for Rasmus but at the same time it would take this or a similar package to land him. The article in question discusses several equivalent packages from several teams and if these packages are realistic the Orioles would not obtain Rasmus for less than the offer Chris suggests.

With AM's recent stress of "pitching being the top priority" there is no way he would trade this package for a player who is not that much of an upgrade over what we already have. In my opinion it would be a bad trade for us.

[MrOrange82]

Yes. Yes he is.

Correct me if I'm wrong, because I only have a shadow of a hint of what I'm asking about, but, given that Rasmus has been a well below average fielder according to UZR over the last two seasons (counting this one) (Jones was better last year, far worse this year), and apparently Jones has been good away from Camden, why is it such a slam dunk that Rasmus is the better CFer?

If Camden actually has been bad for OFers, I don't see why someone who's already playing below average defense elsewhere would absolutely come here and outplay Jones in center.

[O-The-Memories]

Correct me if I'm wrong, because I only have a shadow of a hint of what I'm asking about, but, given that Rasmus has been a well below average fielder according to UZR over the last two seasons (counting this one) (Jones was better last year, far worse this year), and apparently Jones has been good away from Camden, why is it such a slam dunk that Rasmus is the better CFer?

If Camden actually has been bad for OFers, I don't see why someone who's already playing below average defense elsewhere would absolutely come here and outplay Jones in center.

His upside is higher than Jones too, he has similar range in the OF, but his offensive potential is higher. Just my opinion, but I think you might need to trade Guthrie and Jones for Rasmus and a high upside AA/AAA player to get the deal done. The Cardinals won't take Guthrie and JJ for Rasmus? That seems about right to me actually, maybe we'd throw in a 12-15 prospct their way too.

[skanar]

Yes. Yes he is.

Don't mean to be rude, but how do you know this? Have you observed the two of them carefully over long periods? Just going by reputation? Looking at stats? Assuming that since Jones is regarded as poor, Rasmus must be better?

I think it's a reasonable question, and your answer indicates that you don't think so. Please, explain why.

I almost never see Nat'l League players, so I don't have a good handle on how good, especially when it comes to breaking down different facets of their game, and even more especially when it comes to things that aren't measured clearly by stats.

Like nate22, I would like to read a careful breakdown of Rasmus' defensive abilities, with some consideration of why certain defensive metrics refer to him as below-average. You have failed to provide one, link to one, or otherwise contribute to the conversation.

[MrOrange82]

His upside is higher than Jones too, he has similar range in the OF, but his offensive potential is higher. Just my opinion, but I think you might need to trade Guthrie and Jones for Rasmus and a high upside AA/AAA player to get the deal done. The Cardinals won't take Guthrie and JJ for Rasmus? That seems about right to me actually, maybe we'd throw in a 12-15 prospct their way too.

I keep hearing about his upside and the fact that he's a year younger than Jones. First thing that jumps out at me are his numbers from this year...clearly less than stellar, and worse than Jones'. Second thing is that he had a very good OPS year last year, but otherwise didn't blow by Jones in any category. Third thing is, apparently, he's something of a malcontent with off the field issues, whereas Jones has showed consistent hustle despite playing for an abysmal team. I'm not saying Rasmus won't wind up being better than Jones, but I don't think the two are separated by all that much...and there's no freakin' way I'd trade Jones, Guthrie, AND another player to get Rasmus. Jones, IMO, is close enough to Rasmus that giving up Jones+ for Rasmus would be hard to rationalize. Guthrie+, though, I would probably do in a heartbeat...in spite of the fact that our pitching staff would officially have to be downgraded to AAA.

[El Gordo]

Colby Rasmus is a year younger than AJ, and in 2.5 season he has been worth a total 8.6 WAR, to AJ's 7.7 WAR in what amounts to 4 full seasons worth of playing time.

[MrOrange82]

Colby Rasmus is a year younger than AJ, and in 2.5 season he has been worth a total 8.6 WAR, to AJ's 7.7 WAR in what amounts to 4 full seasons worth of playing time.

Well, no one's really addressed my question about the effects Camden might have on Rasmus' defense, and defense is what seems to have knocked down AJ's WAR. Rasmus being at -5.3 this year gives him a slight overall edge on AJ in terms of WAR, despite the fact that Jones has outpaced Rasmus in every offensive category save for OBP (.328 vs .329).

Yes, Rasmus has a 4.3 WAR year (which he's nowhere near right now), and yes he's younger, but he also has lots of negatives in addition to the above-unaddressed question. Again, will he be better than Jones over the course of his career? Maybe, sure. But is the difference so vast that trading Jones and Guthrie for Rasmus makes sense...nooo.

[Meh_Orioles]

Of course I'd take that deal.

Heck, I'd throw in another piece that St. Louis wanted from us if it was reasonable.

[GoldGlove21]

A pitcher who is a FA after '12, a power reliever, and two okay prospects for a cheap everyday player? No, I don't think so. He has pop, has a good glove... and would be under team control cheaply for years. He is the perfect addition.

I am not giving up Guthrie, Johnson, Bidwell and Avery for Rasmus. I like him, but his inconsistent play is the reason why the Cardinals are looking to deal him at this point. On the flip side, the Rays have so much good young pitching that they could deal a young arm for Rasmus straight up. That deal might work for both sides at this point.

[Meh_Orioles]

Also is this a baseless, random question or has someone heard something through the grapevine?

[GoldGlove21]

Well, no one's really addressed my question about the effects Camden might have on Rasmus' defense, and defense is what seems to have knocked down AJ's WAR. Rasmus being at -5.3 this year gives him a slight overall edge on AJ in terms of WAR, despite the fact that Jones has outpaced Rasmus in every offensive category save for OBP (.328 vs .329).

Yes, Rasmus has a 4.3 WAR year (which he's nowhere near right now), and yes he's younger, but he also has lots of negatives in addition to the above-unaddressed question. Again, will he be better than Jones over the course of his career? Maybe, sure. But is the difference so vast that trading Jones and Guthrie for Rasmus makes sense...nooo.

Anyone advocating trading Jones and Guthrie for Rasmus is just outside their mind IMO. The object is to get better, if we are going to give up Guthrie for a bat and we subtract a solid bat in Jones then we just downgraded. Rasmus, Jones, and Markakis is a solid young outfield. Hardy, Wieters, Reynolds and a healthy Roberts help the Orioles lineup as well. That leaves us needing pitching and a middle of the order first baseman, with Reimold rounding out the rest of the lineup.

These moves would still leave us with a rotation of Matusz, Britton, Bergesen, Arrieta and Tillman. We would need at least two decent starters added in the offseason IMO.