Zreibec: Orioles close to trading Koji to RANGERS

[OFFNY]

.

Wouldn't it be something if the Rangers played either the Yankees or the Red Sox in the ALCS and Koji jams it down their throats ?

[glorydays]

Wonder how involved Buck has been on these moves. My guess is that he has given AM his blessings... Otherwise they would not have happened.

[My O's Face]

Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal

Scout: "I would not have given either Davis or Hunter straight up for Uehara." Davis has power, Hunter won 12 last year.

Funny.

[bej6789]

Love the trade. When you're 18 games under .500 -- the reason you probably aren't getting hauls like the ones we hope for is because the players we have just aren't good. Are there holes in Davis's game? Yes. Is Hunter a top end of the rotation starter? No. Is Koji Uehara 36? Yes. Most of us feel that the Orioles are at least a few seasons away from contending. If you want to mention a guy that sure as heck won't be around to see it -- it's Koji. It's not a jumping up and down type deal, but it's likely the best of what was out there. The Orioles could do alot worse than Chris Davis and Tommy Hunter. Alot.

[mark_beckens]

Just the usual OH bs! We trade a guy who's signed for one more year, and whose elbow could blow out at any second for a young starter and a young power hitting 1B that everyone on here was crazy about the last two years. JTrea says we should have traded for Davis two years ago. Yeah, when his value was higher, right. Did I miss two great ML seasons from Davis somewhere? Davis was the minor league with huge upside. Everyone wanted him. The upside is still there but now that he's actually been humanized by ML pitching, everyone's off the bandwagon. Hunter is a young ML pitcher who can start. We traded a fragile relief pitcher with one year left for two guys with value. Davis could be nothing but the potential is there. You can't get a guy like him for Uehara unless he's been tarnished a bit by the majors. I think AM did the best he could. I think Koji will be excellent for the Rangers IF he can stay healthy. I think we did the best we could.

I remember reading several posts from JTrea the last couple years about how we should be trading for Davis, now that we got him, he's not happy. Typical!! AM is damned if he does, damned if he don't. Some people are just never happy!

[JTrea81]

I remember reading several posts from JTrea the last couple years about how we should be trading for Davis, now that we got him, he's not happy. Typical!! AM is damned if he does, damned if he don't. Some people are just never happy!

There's your key.

Two years ago, yeah Davis would have been a great acquistion. Now he's an OK acquisition and the Orioles have the rest of the season to find out what they have, but let's not think he's going to be the solution. I think he's got a chance to be a solid bench player though - better than Bell or Snyder.

As I've said, this deal is more for Hunter. Adair is familiar with him and even Daniels mentioned that the Orioles wanted a back of the rotation arm before he talked about Davis.

By grabbing Hunter, the Orioles don't have to sign a FA starter which allows them to spend more money on hitters.

It's an OK deal, but I think you could have got a better guy from somebody else, but I think the Orioles were looking to get multiple pieces instead of just one after they weren't getting enough to deal Guthrie and found out Koji was their main trade chip.

[Sports Guy]

Agree with Trea, the deal is about Hunter, not Davis. I would guess the Orioles could have gotten a better upside prospect than what they got but they wanted ML players. I think this is a case of them getting a decent package for

what they were looking for but they were looking for the wrong thing.

[hoosiers]

This deal is about Hunter and it seems like he is a pretty respectable haul for Koji.

I would have rather plucked a B+ minor leaguer from a strong Texas system, if possible, than take a flyer on Davis. Maybe Davis will mature statistically as he closes in on his peak years.

We'll have to see if Koji nets picks in a few years.

Overall, Koji ends up being a pretty darn good international signing by our FO. Several years of good to great stats and netting a young, legit 4/5 with potential to be a little better.

[JTrea81]

I guess I know what your saying, but Davis hasn't really done anything the last two years so I guess he wouldn't have been such a great acquistion, now would he?

Well he's been yo-yo'd for one. He was passed by Smoak who Texas ultimately traded.

But at the time when our solution was a declining Aubrey Huff/Ty Wigginton in 2009 or Atkins/Wigginton in 2010, yeah Davis was a better option to at least see what he had than running those guys out there everyday.

Now we need to win now as we've committed to doing that and Davis if he's the solution has to provide premium production at that position, and I don't see that happening right now.

I could be wrong, but at the very least I like him as a bench player.

[mcgraw238]

I also agree the deal is about Hunter. Picking up Hunter adds starting pitching inventory to potentially package for an established starter this offseason. I still maintain that a front line starter is still the greatest need of this club and Hunter adds to the inventory to free other pieces to move. The question then is what starters will be available this offseason.

[SrMeowMeow]

I guess I know what your saying, but Davis hasn't really done anything the last two years so I guess he wouldn't have been such a great acquistion, now would he?

Unfortunately, JTrea is right this time (yikes). Davis would have been a good acquisition two years ago because we had no way to know what path his career would take. He had more upside then and was therefore more valuable, even though we now know he wouldn't have fulfilled it.

[SteveA]

.

Yes, this seems to be the crux. It's not that the return is bad, it's just that we're so far from competitive that this isn't the return that we should be looking for. We should be looking for the highest upside talent that we can acquire, no matter how far from the majors. There's no way that we are going to rebuild this trainwreck into a competitive team for next year, so why apply bandaid fixes?

At the start of this year, most people on here thought the team could finish around .500. That hope primarily hinged on the continued development of our young pitchers (Matusz/Britton/Arrietta/Tillman/Bergeson). Pretty much all of them took a step backward.

The question is: is that step backward an indication that they are failed prospects, or just a glitch in their development like hte year Roy Halladay had an ERA over 10 and had to go back to the minors, or the growing pains suffered by eventual star pitchers like Chris Carpenter, Clay Buchholz, etc?

If you really believe those guys are now garbage, like Hayden Penn and Matt Riley, then of course you should favor a complete rebuild. (ALthough it's funny, I don't hear anyone suggesting we trade Matusz or Britton or Tillman).

But I, for one, am not ready to give up on them. It's been a HORRIBLE year for their development, no doubt. I'm no pitching coach, I don't know why Britton is so horrible right now, or why Matusz isn't what he was last year. But I do know that giving up on them would doom us to at least 3 or 4 more years of misery... and I'm not ready to jump off that cliff yet.

IF one of them can develop into a #1 pitcher, and two othes can be of the #3/#4 variety, then with Hunter as a #5, we are one pitcher away from having a competitive rotation. And I don't think we are that far away from being competitive offensively, yes we need at least one more bat, and we need improvement from Wieters. Markakis appears to be slowly regaining his doubles swing, I don't care if he only hits 15 HRs, if he gives us the 40+ doubles he's supposed to every year with his average and his defense, I'm pretty happy.

With the likely addition of a 3rd wild card next year, the path to the playoffs doesn't necessarily HAVE to mean beating out either the Yankees or the Red Sox from now on, either.

I know there are purists on this board that feel you either have to go "all in" with a rebuild, or else you have to go all in to win this year. I don't think it's that black and white. If a deal improves the talent in our organization, at the major or minor league level, and also gets us younger, i.e. it gives us talent we are under control of for a longer period... it's a good deal. Period. We need to stop stupid signings of $8M for 36 year olds or relievers who have a few saves. I hope MacPhail has learned that lesson, finally.

What I look for in a deal is:

1) Does it improve us organizationally, at the major OR minor league level?

2) Does it make us younger or give us control of players for longer than the players we gave up?

3) Can you answer yes to the following quesiton about player(s) we acquire: "Is he likely to have his best year(s) in the majors in an Oriole uniform, or has he already had them elsewhere"?

If the answer to those questions is yes, I like the deal. I don't try to filter it through some lens of "are we rebuilding" or "are we trying to compete" and then decide. A good deal that improves our team, makes us younger, and brings us players who have a good shot of improving rather than being on the downhill side of their career, is a good deal.

[mark_beckens]

There's your key.

Two years ago, yeah Davis would have been a great acquistion. Now he's an OK acquisition and the Orioles have the rest of the season to find out what they have, but let's not think he's going to be the solution. I think he's got a chance to be a solid bench player though - better than Bell or Snyder.

As I've said, this deal is more for Hunter. Adair is familiar with him and even Daniels mentioned that the Orioles wanted a back of the rotation arm before he talked about Davis.

By grabbing Hunter, the Orioles don't have to sign a FA starter which allows them to spend more money on hitters.

It's an OK deal, but I think you could have got a better guy from somebody else, but I think the Orioles were looking to get multiple pieces instead of just one after they weren't getting enough to deal Guthrie and found out Koji was their main trade chip.

You think his career would be different if we had traded for him 2 years ago? When he would have been more of an important part of the trade. It's comical after reading your comments back then, and now.

[SerenityNow]

I admit I haven't followed Davis closely since his big debut but his stats this year at AAA are absolutely ridiculous. I understand the PCL is a hitters league but he's hit 24 homers in 48 games with a 1.229 OPS. Hopefully he can figure out his problems against ML pitching.

I'm in Texas and they have been talking about his insane numbers for the last few months. I know it hasn't translated to the majors yet, but it's hard not to be excited about 24 homers in 48 games in AAA.