Potential Free Agent 2B

[Sports Guy]

Kelly Johnson has some upside...But I would be looking to trade for a blocked player.

The Orioles should do in the offseason what they should have done at the deadline...trade Guthrie and Jones. Fill in a bunch of holes with those guys and then look to see what you need to add via free agency.

[clapdiddy]

Kelly Johnson has some upside...But I would be looking to trade for a blocked player.

The Orioles should do in the offseason what they should have done at the deadline...trade Guthrie and Jones. Fill in a bunch of holes with those guys and then look to see what you need to add via free agency.

Agree with this wholeheartedly, but I think we realize this ain't happening. Truthfully, this organization could use a huge deal to shake things up at this point. I'd love to see some 12-player type deal go down. I realize those things don't happen very often, but this team is in need of a major facelift.

I take back what I said about Hill...didn't realize his steep decline over the last two years.

[SilentJames]

Kelly Johnson has some upside...But I would be looking to trade for a blocked player.

The Orioles should do in the offseason what they should have done at the deadline...trade Guthrie and Jones. Fill in a bunch of holes with those guys and then look to see what you need to add via free agency.

I don't think you can trade just Guthrie and Jones. At that point I think you need to cut ties with everyone and build for 2016.

Trading Guthrie is easier with Hunter in the fold, and I can see Guts going for that blocked 2B and a couple BP arms. Jones would garner a lot, but right now I think he is still someone you build around.

[Sports Guy]

I don't think you can trade just Guthrie and Jones. At that point I think you need to cut ties with everyone and build for 2016.

Trading Guthrie is easier with Hunter in the fold, and I can see Guts going for that blocked 2B and a couple BP arms. Jones would garner a lot, but right now I think he is still someone you build around.

People keep saying this but this thought makes zero sense.

First of all, trading Guthrie is no big deal in the grand scheme of things, plus he is a FA after next year anyway. If he leaves via FA, do we need to blow up the team?

So, that would mean you think we need to tear down the team just because we dealt Jones...Again, there is zero logic and rationale behind that.

[Camden_yardbird]

For any second I think any second baseman brought in needs to be able to bat leadoff and have plus defense. This team needs to shore up the defense to support the young pitchers and needs a good leadoff hitter to have an offense in the top 5 of the league, which is where they need to be to compete.

[waroriole]

People keep saying this but this thought makes zero sense.

First of all, trading Guthrie is no big deal in the grand scheme of things, plus he is a FA after next year anyway. If he leaves via FA, do we need to blow up the team?

So, that would mean you think we need to tear down the team just because we dealt Jones...Again, there is zero logic and rationale behind that.

That would depend on what we got for him. If we get guys that are ML and/or guys that are very close, then you just plug them in and move right along. If the headliners are AA or lower guys, then it might make sense to start over and deal off everyone that is at or close to their peak. Start fresh with Machado, Bundy etc.

[SilentJames]

People keep saying this but this thought makes zero sense.

First of all, trading Guthrie is no big deal in the grand scheme of things, plus he is a FA after next year anyway. If he leaves via FA, do we need to blow up the team?

So, that would mean you think we need to tear down the team just because we dealt Jones...Again, there is zero logic and rationale behind that.

I think Jones is likely here for the next competitive Orioles team. Guthrie is not. I did say that Guthrie is easier to move with Hunter in the fold. And I did just advocate trading him. But I wouldn't trade Jones, why because I think we still have a chance to build a team around him.

I don't think Markakis is a centerpiece type player anymore. I think Wieters is quickly becoming Markakis. We have solid bats in Reynolds and Hardy, possibly Davis and Reimold but Jones to me is kind of a keystone on this team right now.

Trading him, unless you are going to get an absolute TON back is basically punting the next couple of seasons as those prospects mature. If that is the case then you better trade Reynolds and Markakis as well.

[SilentJames]

For any second I think any second baseman brought in needs to be able to bat leadoff and have plus defense. This team needs to shore up the defense to support the young pitchers and needs a good leadoff hitter to have an offense in the top 5 of the league, which is where they need to be to compete.

I don't think they need to have a top 5 offense. They can run with a league average, slightly higher offense but they need to have top 5 pitching a defense. They get that, they can compete.

[Sports Guy]

I think Jones is likely here for the next competitive Orioles team. Guthrie is not. I did say that Guthrie is easier to move with Hunter in the fold. And I did just advocate trading him. But I wouldn't trade Jones, why because I think we still have a chance to build a team around him.

I don't think Markakis is a centerpiece type player anymore. I think Wieters is quickly becoming Markakis. We have solid bats in Reynolds and Hardy, possibly Davis and Reimold but Jones to me is kind of a keystone on this team right now.

Trading him, unless you are going to get an absolute TON back is basically punting the next couple of seasons as those prospects mature. If that is the case then you better trade Reynolds and Markakis as well.

Jones is not good enough to build around. He isn't that type of player.

[SilentJames]

Jones is not good enough to build around. He isn't that type of player.

Well that is where we differ. I think this core of players is something that we can build around. Jones, Markakis, Wieters, Reynolds, Hardy - I think we have the makings of a solid offense right there.

What is missing? A nice solid high OBP guy and some better defense at the corners and left field.

You and I both know that the entire future rests on the young pitching and unless Jones is going to get us a top flight TOR type starter then I don't see the point in breaking up that core.

Of course to you I'm (and anyone that shares this view) is wrong and nothing we ever say will convince you or at least make you consider this opinion for more than 20 seconds so just go on, do your thing.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Andino doesn't solve the gaping OBP hole in the lineup right now. I hate to go all Billy Beane but we need some solid guys out there that know how to get on base consistently. That was one of the things that Roberts really brought to this team, solid AVG, great OBP. The steals and doubles were gravy but the meat of his game was right there - that is what we are missing.

We're not just going to go out there and grab some 360+ OBP guy to bat leadoff. Put Nick #1 and hope he'd does better next year. Our best hope is a balanced lineup and better defense along with improved pitching.

[FuManchu]

Andino doesn't solve the gaping OBP hole in the lineup right now. I hate to go all Billy Beane but we need some solid guys out there that know how to get on base consistently. That was one of the things that Roberts really brought to this team, solid AVG, great OBP. The steals and doubles were gravy but the meat of his game was right there - that is what we are missing.

The 2010/2011 Andino would reach base roughly 11 times fewer over 700 PAs than the 2009/2010 Roberts.

[SilentJames]

We're not just going to go out there and grab some 360+ OBP guy to bat leadoff. Put Nick #1 and hope he'd does better next year. Our best hope is a balanced lineup and better defense along with improved pitching.

No we are not but it is a piece of the puzzle.

Team BA - 6th in the AL

Team OPS - 7th in the AL

Runs scored - 9th in the AL

Team OBP - 11th in the AL

Team BB - 13th in the AL

How much higher would our OPS be if our team OBP wasn't near the bottom? How many more runs would we have scored. We have been hitting homers like its going out of style since the all-star break, first team in the game with three 20+ HR batters this year, but they have all been solo shots because we aren't getting on base.

Right now the inability for this team to take a walk and get on base is really hurting this offense and keeping it below league average. Its not the last piece, but it is a piece that needs to be addressed.

The biggest problems are of course the pitching and overall defense, but that is another thread.

I am bringing this up here because that is what the Orioles are really missing Roberts for right now. That 360 OBP at the top of the order was the meat of his game. The doubles and the SBs were gravy, but his ability to get on base was key to this team.

[SilentJames]

The 2010/2011 Andino would reach base roughly 11 times fewer over 700 PAs than the 2009/2010 Roberts.

Your extrapolating 16 games from Andino in 2010 to 700 ABs. Really?

2011 Andino is putting up his BEST OBP in his career at .338. He is a career .301 OBP guy. Come on, this is so not even close.

not

[CA-ORIOLE]

No we are not but it is a piece of the puzzle.

Team BA - 6th in the AL

Team OPS - 7th in the AL

Runs scored - 9th in the AL

Team OBP - 11th in the AL

Team BB - 13th in the AL

How much higher would our OPS be if our team OBP wasn't near the bottom? How many more runs would we have scored. We have been hitting homers like its going out of style since the all-star break, first team in the game with three 20+ HR batters this year, but they have all been solo shots because we aren't getting on base.

Right now the inability for this team to take a walk and get on base is really hurting this offense and keeping it below league average. Its not the last piece, but it is a piece that needs to be addressed.

The biggest problems are of course the pitching and overall defense, but that is another thread.

I am bringing this up here because that is what the Orioles are really missing Roberts for right now. That 360 OBP at the top of the order was the meat of his game. The doubles and the SBs were gravy, but his ability to get on base was key to this team.

Everybody wants high OBP guys. Like I said Nick is a guy who has a good chance to improve his next year and is the best candidate to bat leadoff imo. It doesn't have to be replacing one guy and that's just not practical. The other thing we could do is end this Chris Davis experiment and deal him now or in the offseason. This is the kind of player (undisciplined/low OBP) we don't want. There are several spots: DH/3b (moving Reynolds to first)/LF and some platooning where we can improve the overall OBP. Improving the defense isn't separate here, it's selecting a combination of players to do both and not worrying about replacing one guy's production.