Source: MacPhail Out as GM

[ccbird]

Just out of curiosity -- how would you respond to this comment just posted in Roch's most recent blog:

Roch was asked:

Roch....I can only read between the lines when I see stuff such as what McPhail offers (or didn't offer) above...and that to me screams loudly that the owner wouldn't spend the money McPhail needed to attract pitchers....Money will make you do a lot of things you might not otherwise do; like come to pitch in Camden Yards.

He responded:

Andy wasn't pushing for the owner to spend big bucks. Trust me on this one.

http://www.masnsports.com/school_of_roch/2011/10/macphail-i-just-thought-it-was-a-good-time-to-step-back.html

I certainly understand where the anti Jtrea posts are coming from, I just respectfully disagree. Angelos is no saint when it comes to being a great owner, I get that. However, Macphail certainly had his shortcomings, too. I think Jtrea's argument is being dismissed just based off the fact that it's him posting it.

The truth of the matter is the payroll is more likely to go down than up. Trea or anybody else thinking the payroll is going to push into the 110+ range is insane.

[Chevytrckman3]

I just noticed this interesting tweet from Nightengale:

http://twitter.com/#!/BNightengale/status/122718469065150464

Maybe all the "Buck-puppet" stuff is overblown? One can hope.

Buck may not have been interested in leaving the field. Buck has always had the reputation of being a control freak. Maybe the idea of being Manager/GM intrigued Buck, and thats where the rumors started? Maybe.

[Chevytrckman3]

The truth of the matter is the payroll is more likely to go down than up. Trea or anybody else thinking the payroll is going to push into the 110+ range is insane.

This may be the case. But, if the payroll does decrease, that won't be the only thing decreasing for the Orioles. And that's sad, because the attendence can't get much worse. The average fan want's results. They don't care about scouting or development, or international scouting. The bottom line for the average fan is wins and losses.

[bej6789]

While that may be true, I wasn't really addressing that point. To me, at least, that comment from Roch makes it seem like Macphail had more of a hand in the pot than I thought. Maybe it isn't true, we'll never know to what extent his involvment with the budget truly was. That being said, I think Macphail had more leeway/rope to do things his way than previous GM's -- it just didn't work. Whether Buck is a better person for the job is something only time will tell. My general feeling about this whole process is that the Orioles are so far away from competing for a playoff spot that something drastic has to be done. It's not a minor tweak job. With that, for better or worse, I just feel like we're closer to *finally* being on the right track by Macphail leaving. I guess that's where my support for Macphail not being back starts.

[The Rick]

I have insider information that tells me this thread is going 14 pages long...

Ding Ding Ding, what do we have for him Johnny.

[scOtt]

Ding Ding Ding, what do we have for him Johnny.

Yoooouu've won a brand new Maytag Washer and Dryer!!!!!!

[BrunoCherrytown]

Ding Ding Ding, what do we have for him Johnny.

Bring me some fresh wine. None of this old stuff. I'm talking this year!

[Sports Guy]

Just out of curiosity -- how would you respond to this comment just posted in Roch's most recent blog:

Roch was asked:

Roch....I can only read between the lines when I see stuff such as what McPhail offers (or didn't offer) above...and that to me screams loudly that the owner wouldn't spend the money McPhail needed to attract pitchers....Money will make you do a lot of things you might not otherwise do; like come to pitch in Camden Yards.

He responded:

Andy wasn't pushing for the owner to spend big bucks. Trust me on this one.

http://www.masnsports.com/school_of_roch/2011/10/macphail-i-just-thought-it-was-a-good-time-to-step-back.html

I certainly understand where the anti Jtrea posts are coming from, I just respectfully disagree. Angelos is no saint when it comes to being a great owner, I get that. However, Macphail certainly had his shortcomings, too. I think Jtrea's argument is being dismissed just based off the fact that it's him posting it.

AM was a pretty poor GM. PA was/is a worse owner.

There is no doubt that AM was too conservative in many ways...the same ways PA is too conservative.

[JTrea81]

The truth of the matter is the payroll is more likely to go down than up. Trea or anybody else thinking the payroll is going to push into the 110+ range is insane.

I'm pretty sure the payroll is going to go up this offseason.

Just like when MacPhail left the Cubs, the Orioles are going to go on a spending spree IMO.

[glorydays]

Just out of curiosity -- how would you respond to this comment just posted in Roch's most recent blog:

Roch was asked:

Roch....I can only read between the lines when I see stuff such as what McPhail offers (or didn't offer) above...and that to me screams loudly that the owner wouldn't spend the money McPhail needed to attract pitchers....Money will make you do a lot of things you might not otherwise do; like come to pitch in Camden Yards.

He responded:

Andy wasn't pushing for the owner to spend big bucks. Trust me on this one.

http://www.masnsports.com/school_of_roch/2011/10/macphail-i-just-thought-it-was-a-good-time-to-step-back.html

I certainly understand where the anti Jtrea posts are coming from, I just respectfully disagree. Angelos is no saint when it comes to being a great owner, I get that. However, Macphail certainly had his shortcomings, too. I think Jtrea's argument is being dismissed just based off the fact that it's him posting it.

Again - the point that many are making is that Peter Angelos hired Andy MacPhail in part because Andy MacPhail was/is conservative. That is a Peter Angelos problem - not an Andy MacPhail problem. Peter Angelos was the failure here in the philosophy he used to run an organization and who he chose to run it.

In addition - both Pete and Buck wanted Andy MacPhail to stay on board in some capacity and possibly to continue as GM. That tells me Buck in all his wisdom approved the direction the team was going in. Sure - he may have more influence on the minors which would be great... but I don't think they were looking for him to simply be the man who disappears behind the curtains.

As I mentioned before - the fact that AM turned them down should tell us a lot of how he feels about Buckangelos and how this organization is run. Some may poop on him all we want - but the man is highly respected in the baseball world... you don't become an heir apparent to the baseball commissioner for simply making good trades.

Finally - Roch may also be addressing the O's financial situation. Perhaps he was saying - the O's don't have money to spend and therefore wasn't going to push for the owner to spend big bucks.

Trea deserves what he gets around here for being closed minded and inconsistent. When knowledgable and well respected posters like SportsGuy and Frobby pound you in the sand with fact that prove you are wrong and you continue to ignore them - well, that is a you (Trea) problem and not a them (99% of the OH) problem.

[Austin]

I'm pretty sure the payroll is going to go up this offseason.

Just like when MacPhail left the Cubs, the Orioles are going to go on a spending spree IMO.

Yeah, because if there's any team I'm envious of right now, it's the Chicago Cubs.

[JTrea81]

Yeah, because if there's any team I'm envious of right now, it's the Chicago Cubs.

They made the playoffs two years in a row after they spent that money, winning their division twice.

[TGO]

They made the playoffs two years in a row after they spent that money, winning the worst division in baseball twice, once with 85 wins.

Fixed that for you.

[Austin]

They made the playoffs two years in a row after they spent that money, winning their division twice.

The 2008 Cubs earned nearly 122 million dollars in salary, I think even you can admit we won't match that. They played in a division much worse than the 2011/12 AL East and made the playoffs twice, now they are mired in three straight years of mediocrity with a $130 million payroll.

[glorydays]

Again - the point that many are making is that Peter Angelos hired Andy MacPhail in part because Andy MacPhail was/is conservative. That is a Peter Angelos problem - not an Andy MacPhail problem. Peter Angelos was the failure here in the philosophy he used to run an organization and who he chose to run it.

In addition - both Pete and Buck wanted Andy MacPhail to stay on board in some capacity and possibly to continue as GM. That tells me Buck in all his wisdom approved the direction the team was going in. Sure - he may have more influence on the minors which would be great... but I don't think they were looking for him to simply be the man who disappears behind the curtains.

As I mentioned before - the fact that AM turned them down should tell us a lot of how he feels about Buckangelos and how this organization is run. Some may poop on him all we want - but the man is highly respected in the baseball world... you don't become an heir apparent to the baseball commissioner for simply making good trades.

Finally - Roch may also be addressing the O's financial situation. Perhaps he was saying - the O's don't have money to spend and therefore wasn't going to push for the owner to spend big bucks.

Trea deserves what he gets around here for being closed minded and inconsistent. When knowledgable and well respected posters like SportsGuy and Frobby pound you in the sand with fact that prove you are wrong and you continue to ignore them - well, that is a you (Trea) problem and not a them (99% of the OH) problem.

And just to add to this... God help us but Trea's analysis of what happens next (we overspend or trade our young pitching for aging, fat players) may be correct but it points to the larger Peter Angelos problem - a committment to a long term and consistent organizational philosophy.

The Tampa Bay Rays have fought through small market obstacles including years of losing by committing to their organizational strategy.

George Steinbrenner learned the value of following a long term organizational philosophy after years of inconsistent management.

The Twins have a long term organizatinal philosophy that has allowed it to be a model mid market franchise.

The Orioles were a model franchise because of the Oriole Way organizational strategy.

This lack of committment is not just a 14 year problem - but a problem since PA has been owner. Switching philosophies every 3-4 years is the wrong way of running any business and is just a true in running a ball club.

Sure - you may have to switch the person who is leading the change - but it is the owner's responsibility to make sure that the philosophy remains consistent from leader to leader.