What evidence do we have that Angelos...

[CA-ORIOLE]

Folks keep saying this and it isn't true. The O's owe Vlad 3 million in deferred payments, that isn't going to be 3 million coming out of Angelos' pockets, its 3 million coming out of the O's funds. That might be an overslot draft pick and a half dozen international kids not signed.

The O's are not in a position to be throwing money away on over the hill vets in a hopeless effort to sell a few season ticket plans.

I think it was Keith Law (in his ripping of the organization) that said that the extra 3 mil came out of player development funds and it wasn't an extra 3 mil that PA just coughed up. Who knows. Yeah I agree we shouldn't have signed him for all the obvious reasons. I was against it from the start. I hated seeing him take AB's the whole year. But lets not pretend AM was some saint who was gonna put all the wasted FA money into player development if PA didn't force him to sign FA's. Also, I'd say most were pretty excited about the offseason moves before the season started. AM's FA signings have been pretty horrendous and his unwillingness to take risk in the International market are well documented.

[Can_of_corn]

The money probably hasn't come out of anywhere yet. The O's are still years away from having to pay the money. It isn't due until after the Roberts and Markakis deals expire.

I am also not deifying AM, just the Vlad deal really sticks in my craw since 1- They bid against themselves 2- It wasn't an area of need 3-I am a Reimold fan and the deal took at bats away from him.

[CA-ORIOLE]

The money probably hasn't come out of anywhere yet. The O's are still years away from having to pay the money. It isn't due until after the Roberts and Markakis deals expire.

I am also not deifying AM, just the Vlad deal really sticks in my craw since 1- They bid against themselves 2- It wasn't an area of need 3-I am a Reimold fan and the deal took at bats away from him.

Yeah, I agree with everything you said here. I would have rather seen Pie and Reimold play as much as possible. It's just my opinion that PA was infuenced by Buck on this one.

[JTrea81]

Yeah, I agree with everything you said here. I would have rather seen Pie and Reimold play as much as possible. It's just my opinion that PA was infuenced by Buck on this one.

So you were ready to hand a full time spot to Pie the guy that had a -2.1 fWAR this season and Reimold who had a disasterous 2010?

Buck actually wanted them to earn their spots and force their way into a role. Too many players had spots handed to them without earning them. That's not what a winning team does.

Tryouts were over. It was time for the team to win, so they made a win now move by moving Scott to LF and making Vlad the fulltime DH.

Had Vlad performed, it would have been seen as a good move.

[CA-ORIOLE]

So you were ready to hand a full time spot to Pie the guy that had a -2.1 fWAR this season and Reimold who had a disasterous 2010?

Buck actually wanted them to earn their spots and force their way into a role.

Tryouts were over. It was time for the team to win, so they made a win now move by moving Scott to LF and making Vlad the fulltime DH.

Had Vlad performed, it would have been seen as a good move.

It's not a point of what Pie did, or Reimold's 2010, it's about evaluating young talent and giving it a chance to develop. It's about doing so at a far less cost that signing someone like VLAD. So to your point, yes. Ideally, I'd like better talent, but I'd rather see a Robert Andino than a Rollins at second base. Absoloutely. Free Agents are the worst possible way to try and win. The absoloute worst. Particularly in context to our payroll. Not only that, but the type of FA's we sign and that are even realisitically available to us (like Vlad/Lee) are typically the worst of the worst. Why don't you understand that?

Repeatedly taking risks with low probabilites of success are not "good moves".

Again, win what exactly ? A .500 record ? A playoff berth?

[JTrea81]

It's not a point of what Pie did, or Reimold's 2010, it's about evaluating young talent and giving it a chance to develop. It's about doing so at a far less cost that signing someone like VLAD. So to your point, yes. Ideally, I'd like better talent, but I'd rather see a Robert Andino than a Rollins at second base. Absoloutely. Free Agents are the worst possible way to try and win. The absoloute worst. Not only that, but the type of FA's we sign and that are even realisitically available to us (like Vlad/Lee) are typically the worst of the worst. Why don't you understand that?

Again, win what exactly ? A .500 record ? A playoff berth?

Pie and Reimold had been given multiple chances to take the LF job. And they didn't do it. Why keep giving them chance after chance when they hadn't earned it?

And as for FA, every FA is realistically available to us. It's time to get rid of that falsehood that the Orioles are unable to sign premium talent just because they are the Orioles. Those excuses should no longer occur now that the MacPhail era is done.

We need talent on this team bottom line, homegrown, trade, FA it doesn't matter. All that matters is that we acquire the talent needed to win. How we get there and how much we spend is of little importance as long as we win.

[byrdz]

It's not only the meddling that's the problem. He's the one that OK's all "large" deals, and that's OK, except for the fact that he's slow as molasses. This has been stated before and I wouldn't imagine that he's sped up all that much. It's had success in the courts but not in baseball. Not only that but I'm sure that isn't the only decisions he's involved with. GM's need more latitude and greater flexibility than that since the timelines on deals can change quickly. MacPhail had his trust and that helped his cause. Let's hope the next GM can do the same and with a better plan.

[Can_of_corn]

Yes the O's should take every opportunity to become, older, less athletic and more expensive.

[JTrea81]

Yes the O's should take every opportunity to become, older, less athletic and more expensive.

If they win, what does it matter?

There are multiple ways for the Orioles to win. They don't have to have a team full of young, cheap players to do so.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Pie and Reimold had been given multiple chances to take the LF job. And they didn't do it. Why keep giving them chance after chance when they hadn't earned it?

. It's time to get rid of that falsehood that the Orioles are unable to sign premium talent just because they are the Orioles. Those excuses should no longer occur now that the MacPhail era is done.

We need talent on this team bottom line, homegrown, trade, FA it doesn't matter.

Pie had shown some potential the previous two years. He completely failed. I got it. I'd rather see Pie and his one million dollar contract fail than sign an 8 million dollar slug to suck up AB's. As far as Reimold goes, he had personal and injureis last year. The guy has tools. I'd rather see Reimold play and fail rather than see Vladdy play and suck AB's. In Reimold's case, he still had an option last year. He showed ability in 2009 and he did this year as well. He doesn't do that without AB's

All that matters is that we acquire the talent needed to win. How we get there and how much we spend is of little importance as long as we wind

.

But it is important. It's critically important. That's the point. You give no consideration as to cost, resources and risk. FA's are far more costly.

And as for FA, every FA is realistically available to us

OK Pujols is available. Can we afford the cost and risk and field a competitive team within our resources (90 mil?). I don't know. What do you think the number should be for payroll (considering player development etc.).

[Can_of_corn]

If they win, what does it matter?

There are multiple ways for the Orioles to win. They don't have to have a team full of young, cheap players to do so.

Trea, even if the O's could somehow win with a bunch of old, expensive, unathletic guys, they couldn't maintain that success. Have you fallen so far that one year of winning baseball will satisfy you?

They need to have a core of young, cheap talent, signing someone like Vlad retards that approach on multiple levels.

[SilentJames]

If they win, what does it matter?

There are multiple ways for the Orioles to win. They don't have to have a team full of young, cheap players to do so.

The thing about sports Trea, the older and less athletic a team gets the more games they lose.

That is kind of how athletics works.

[glorydays]

So you were ready to hand a full time spot to Pie the guy that had a -2.1 fWAR this season and Reimold who had a disasterous 2010?

Buck actually wanted them to earn their spots and force their way into a role. Too many players had spots handed to them without earning them. That's not what a winning team does.

Tryouts were over. It was time for the team to win, so they made a win now move by moving Scott to LF and making Vlad the fulltime DH.

Had Vlad performed, it would have been seen as a good move.

Scott Moore says hi to his biggest fan!

[JTrea81]

The thing about sports Trea, the older and less athletic a team gets the more games they lose.

That is kind of how athletics works.

The Yankees still managed to win 97 games.

[Dannyboy]

The Yankees still managed to win 97 games.

And where are they now?